[Note: Kevin Jennings is the current "Safe Schools Czar" for the Obama administration.]

Mr. Jennings —

Please read my plea. Your shining career may soon be tarnished. You’re about to be blindsided. And I’d like to help you save your reputation.

You’ve done many admirable things which earned you your position as the Safe Schools Czar. You founded GLSEN, the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, a support group for teens. You have been a champion against discrimination in schools. And you’ve brought nationwide attention to the problem of bullying against students. All of these are worthy of praise, and I support your efforts in these areas.

But all that is about to be swept away by a scandal of your own making. Yet there’s hope: Because the scandal has not yet become national news, you still have a chance to stop it from spreading, and in the process safeguard your political career.

(And no, I’m not talking about the earlier uproar over your advice to a student.)

Instead, I’m talking about something new — something which up until now has been a minor footnote to that scandal. Something that seems poised to explode into public consciousness any minute. And you still have a brief window of opportunity to get in front of it and defuse the scandal before it breaks.

I’m talking about the revelation that in a speech you gave in 1997, you praised gay rights icon Harry Hay and claimed you were “inspired” by him.

According to various blogs and smaller news outlets, when you addressed the GLSEN Mid-Atlantic Conference on October 25, 1997 in New York, as reported in the January-February 1998 edition of the Lambda Journal, you said:

One of the people that’s always inspired me is Harry Hay, who started the first ongoing gay rights groups in America. In 1948, he tried to get people to join the Mattachine Society. It took him two years to find one other person who would join. Well, [in] 1993, Harry Hay marched with a million people in Washington, who thought he had a good idea 40 years before. Everybody thought Harry Hay was crazy in 1948, and they knew something about him which he apparently did not—they were right, he was crazy. You are all crazy. We are all crazy. All of us who are thinking this way are crazy, because you know what? Sane people keep the world the same [shitty] old way it is now. It’s the people who think, ‘No, I can envision a day when straight people say, “So what if you’re promoting homosexuality?”‘ Or straight kids say, ‘Hey, why don’t you and your boyfriend come over before you go to the prom and try on your tuxes on at my house?’ That if we believe that can happen, we can make it happen. The only thing that will stop us is our lack of faith that we can make it happen. That is our mission from this day forward. To not lose our faith, to not lose our belief that the world can, indeed, be a different place. And think how much can change in one lifetime if in Harry Hay’s one very short life, he saw change from not even one person willing to join him to a million people willing to travel to Washington to join him.

So — what’s the problem? The problem is that Harry Hay, despite whatever else he did in his life, was deeply involved with NAMBLA, the North American Man/Boy Love Association — a group which advocates for legalization of sexual relations between adult men and underage boys. In other words, it’s a pro-pedophilia group.

How deeply was Harry Hay involved with NAMBLA? As I discovered: very deeply. Much deeper than almost anyone seems willing to admit. He gave keynote speeches and led panel discussions at several NAMBLA conferences. He openly told stories about how wonderful his own experiences were as a young teenager having sex with adult men. He encouraged the gay rights movement to not exclude NAMBLA from the united front of rights for all sexual minorities. And that 1993 march you recalled in your 1997 speech in which Harry Hay was joined by one million other protesters? Well, just one year later, in 1994 — just three years before you gave your speech — Harry Hay marched in the Stonewall 25 parade in front of the NAMBLA banner, for the stated purpose of bringing NAMBLA into the mainstream of the gay rights movement. Now, obviously NAMBLA doesn’t publish lists of its members, so we have no way of ever knowing for sure, but from all the evidence I’ve learned (presented below on this page), I wouldn’t be surprised if Harry Hay was at some point somehow affiliated with NAMBLA.

How could you not know any of this? What were you thinking when you praised Hay in public? Aren’t you by your own self-description an expert in the history of the gay rights movement? How else would you know the obscure details of Harry Hay’s activist career, which you mentioned in your speech? I’m no expert myself, but Harry Hay’s proclivities were quite well-known, and the photos, links and quotes presented below were uncovered after a mere 30 minutes of searching.

Yes, I know that many mainstream media outlets showered praise on Harry Hay in their obituaries about him when he died in 2002. And nary a mention of his NAMBLA activities was made at the time. But as a prominent gay rights activist yourself, and as a fan of Harry Hay’s early activism, weren’t you of all people the kind of person who should have known of Harry Hay’s unsavory later affiliations? Just because his NAMBLA connection was swept under the rug for a mainstream audience, doesn’t mean it would stay hidden forever.

But if you get out in front of this story and admit your error, rather than trying to cover it up, you can defuse the inevitable controversy that will arise once the info shown below hits the nightly news.

Gay teens need to feel safe — not just from bullies their own age, but also from adult predators seeking to take advantage of them. You’ve done such a great job thus far in encouraging a nurturing and bully-free environment for gay teenagers; do you want to undermine your own goals by fostering the impression that you’re not as diligent as you possibly could be when it comes to protecting them from adults? Speak up. Don’t let your silence turn into a tragedy.

Here is evidence of Hay’s NAMBLA connections; and following that, I make some recommendations for how you can defuse this controversy and distance yourself from Hay. Please read all the way to the end.


Harry Hay’s connection with NAMBLA: the evidence

Here’s a photo of Harry Hay participating in a panel discussion at the 1984 NAMBLA conference in San Francisco — he’s on the far right of the speakers’ table, in the cap and glasses:


[Source link for this image: nambla.org - Youth Views and Issues]
(also here: nambla.org – HARRY HAY San Francisco, 1984)

The caption on the original NAMBLA source page definitively identifies Hay as the man on the far right:

Jesse (center), age 16, addresses a NAMBLA forum.
Other speakers included (left to right) David Thorstad, Jim Kepner, Morris Kight, and Harry Hay.

And yes, other known pictures of Harry Hay prove that the guy on the right most certainly is him — the cap and the glasses were his trademark.

The photo above is clearly Harry Hay, but the NAMBLA banner, while identifiable, is partly cut off. However, the next photo in the series shows the banner clearly. The photo below shows a wide-angle shot of Hay at the speakers’ table (on the right in the leather cap) at the same conference, with the NAMBLA banner clearly visible behind him:


[Source link for this image: nambla.org - HARRY HAY San Francisco, 1984]

Caption at the NAMBLA source page for this photo:

The following comments by Harry Hay are from a public forum on the topic “Man/Boy Love and Sexual Liberation” held during a NAMBLA conference at the Pride Center in San Francisco, October 7, 1984.

But wait, there’s more:

Photo of Harry Hay (center) marching in the “Spirit of Stonewall” contingent along with NAMBLA (notice the partially obscured NAMBLA banner behind him) at the Stonewall 25 march in New York in 1994:


[Source link for this image: nambla.org - Histories of Man/Boy Love]

Caption for this photo on the NAMBLA source page:

Left to right: John Burnside, Harry Hay and Jim Kepner marching in the Spirit of Stonewall demonstration, New York, 1994.

Aside from the photos, there are many links to Harry Hay material prominently displayed on NAMBLA’s own site.

According to a NAMBLA Web page called “A Quest for Knowledge: HARRY HAY at NEW YORK UNIVERSITY 1983,” Hay wrote the promotional blurb for a NAMBLA book:

The episode is documented in the book, A Witchhunt Foiled: The FBI vs. NAMBLA (New York: NAMBLA, 1985), for which Harry wrote a promotional blurb.

[UPDATE: A photo of Hay's pro-NAMBLA book blurb can be found here.]

Then, on the same page, after recounting his own early man/boy experiences (as the boy half of the equation), Hay goes on to make the most astonishing statement:

I also would like to say at this point that it seems to me that in the gay community the people who should be running interference for NAMBLA are the parents and friends of gays. Because if the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what thirteen-, fourteen-, and fifteen-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world. And they would be welcoming this, and welcoming the opportunity for young gay kids to have the kind of experience that they would need.

Kevin Jennings, we know you do not support this kind of statement, and you are not “inspired” by the kind of activism Harry Hay exhibits here. For the good of the gay community, PLEASE condemn this publicly and emphatically.

The NAMBLA page called “HARRY HAY on MAN/BOY LOVE” explains some of the political in-fighting between Hay and other NAMBLA supporters against mainstream gay groups and politicians who wanted to ostracize NAMBLA. It also discusses how at least two early Mattachine Society members were both later affiliated with NAMBLA — which begins to cast a bit of a shadow on the Mattachine Society itself:

I was lucky to have spent more time with him than I could have hoped for, yet far less than I would have liked—at Phil Willkie’s Wisconsin cabin and his St. Paul apartment; at the Stonewall 25 demonstration in New York in 1994, where Harry and John, as well as the late Jim Kepner (another early member of the Mattachine Society and a gay archivist) marched with the Spirit of Stonewall contingent that included NAMBLA; and at the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA) conference in New York that same week, which expelled NAMBLA (despite Harry’s vocal protests and subsequent disgust) under pressure from U.S. Senator Jesse Helms, the Clinton administration, gay congressman Barney Frank, and the gay and lesbian assimilationist organizations; at his and John’s apartment in San Francisco; at a Faerie event in Stuyvesant Square Park in New York; at several NAMBLA conferences

And speaking of the “several NAMBLA conferences” which Harry Hay atttended…:

Harry Hay spoke again at the 1986 Los Angeles NAMBLA Conference:

The following comments were made by Harry at a panel on censorship and pornography at the NAMBLA conference in Los Angeles on November 8, 1986. …

“I think this is a place where we have to find very imaginative ways to reach all kinds of elements of the community that we up to now haven’t thought of touching. Not only to reach all kinds of elements of our own community, but to find the weak spots, shall we say, within the left, within the progressive forces in the hetero community who might find themselves in parallel with where we are, or in parallel with the way that we feel we are going to go, and make of them willing—or even unwilling—allies in this whole regard.”

And in 1994 — just three years before you praised Harry Hay as your inspiration — Hay gave yet another speech at the 1994 New York NAMBLA Conference:

Harry made the following remarks on June 25, 1994, to the NAMBLA conference in New York held during the Stonewall 25 commemorations.

In fact, I have been unable to find information about any NAMBLA conference which Harry Hay didn’t attend.

I don’t know what it takes to be considered “in NAMBLA” or a “NAMBLA member,” but someone who makes appearances at and gives speeches at every known NAMBLA conference, and who speaks out publicly in NAMBLA’s defense, and who writes blurbs for NAMBLA books, would seem to be a likely candidate.


I strongly recommend that you take one of the following steps IMMEDIATELY, before this story gets out of control.

Either,

a. Publicly condemn Harry Hay for his involvement with NAMBLA, apologize for praising him, and say it was a terrible mistake for someone such as yourself who is involved with the safety of children in schools to have praised an advocate for child sexual predators.

…or…

b. Deny, while supplying proof, that you ever gave any speech praising Harry Hay in the first place. (The speech was supposedly given on October 25, 1997 in New York and transcribed in the Jan.-Feb. 1998 issue of the Lambda Report. The problem for me is that I’ve never seen a copy of this journal myself, and before I commit myself to a fact, I generally try to dig up the primary sources. I don’t like relying on third-party claims [such as from news articles or blogs] without photographic proof. And I tried to track down a copy of that Lambda Report, with no success. The only library that seems to have it is the Library of Congress. So: I myself cannot say for sure that the transcription is accurate. And if it isn’t accurate, you need to tell us.) If you have never praised Harry Hay, then the scandal will immediately evaporate.

…or…

c. Issue an official statement that you were completely unaware of Harry Hay’s proclivities and advocacy for NAMBLA, but now that you’ve learned of it, you condemn him unequivocally, and vow to never praise him again. (However, this option will still leave the issue open to doubt, since it’s not entirely credible you wouldn’t know about Hay’s NAMBLA connection; so I don’t really recommend this one as your best option.)

But — unless you want to self-destruct your own career — by no means should you:

d. Continue to praise Harry Hay’s actions with the Mattachine Society, but try to distance yourself from his later involvement with NAMBLA. (No matter how much you try to spin this, and distinguish the good Harry Hay from the bad Harry Hay, the public will almost certainly still perceive that you were “inspired” by someone who was known to promote adult/child sexual relations.)

…or…

e. Remain silent, hoping the scandal will go away; because it won’t.

And the worst option of all is to,

f. Deny that Harry Hay was involved with NAMBLA at all. (Because the evidence for it is overwhelming, as shown above.)

Mr. Jennings, you’ve worked hard to get where you are. Don’t jeopardize it all now. Distance yourself immediately from Harry Hay. Or prove that you never mentioned him in a speech. Because if you dither, or try to rationalize your praise of Hay, you run the strong risk of tarring not just your own self by association, but the entire Obama administration as well. (Imagine the headlines if you don’t extinguish this scandal ASAP: Obama appoints activist “inspired” by NAMBLA supporter to protect the nation’s children. Do you really want to see that?)

From what i understand, you never even met Harry Hay. You didn’t actually know him. It’s not like he was a personal friend of yours; you just knew his reputation. And yes, because of his role setting up the country’s first gay political organization, there was a drive to protect that reputation, and as a result he was often held up as the Founding Father of the gay movement. So perhaps you can claim ignorance, that you never really looked into who Harry Hay was (beyond the headlines) when you said you were “inspired’ by him. You should have done your due diligence, but didn’t. And that’s fine. We all make mistakes. But now that the due diligence has been done for you, you can no longer pretend that the elephant is not in the living room. For the sake of your own political viability, you need to disavow your earlier statement and cross Harry Hay off your list of heroes. Otherwise, you will be forever linked with him, and that link may well prove an unbearable burden if you don’t sever it. The sooner the better.

Is this entire ridiculous affair nothing but guilt by asssociation? Certainly. But guilt by association has sunk many a politician. You’re in a highly sensitive, very visible political position. And NAMBLA is a very, very bad association. In fact, for someone with your title — “Safe Schools Czar” — even a peripheral connection to NAMBLA is about the worst connection you can possibly have.

That’s why you need to nip this in the bud, and now.

I can only hope that you never really did praise Harry Hay or say you were inspired by him. If that entire issue of the Lambda Report is a hoax, please issue the proof, and I will post an update here showing that proof and exonerating you. That would be the best option of all. And if you did once praise Hay — which is understandable, because a lot of people have praised Hay over the years — then please condemn him now. If you do, I will also gladly update this post right at the very top with your statement.

But if you remain silent on this issue, or continue defending Harry Hay — well, you’re on your own after that. At least I can say I tried to help.

Please, Mr. Jennings: Get in front of this scandal and stop it while you still have a chance.


UPDATE:


Oh dear. Looks like Kevin Jennings edited and co-wrote a book called Becoming Visible about the history of gay activism in which there is an entire chapter about Harry Hay! It is partly searchable on Amazon: Click here for a link to the Amazon “Peek Inside” feature for the book, and scroll to its table of contents. Or click here or on the small image above to see a clear screenshot of the book’s Table of Contents, including the chapter on Harry Hay.

This is not good news.

567 Responses to “Memo to Kevin Jennings: Your reputation is on the line”

  1. 1Kurt on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:00 am:

    Given the number of people who think Polanski’s man-girl love was such an innocent thing…this may cause nary a ripple.

  2. 2Pablo on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:56 am:

    Good stuff as always, Zombie. Much love, and keep up the outstanding work.

    Pablo, once aka Powderfinger

  3. 3Lincolntf on Oct 6, 2009 at 7:17 am:

    Very interesting. I’ll be watching the various MSM’s for mentions of this, and I can pretty much guarantee that none will do the complete job Zombie has. State the problem, show the evidence, suggest solutions. Why is that so hard for them?
    As to the political fallout if it is not nipped in the bud, I don’t know how many more failed czars the Obama Admin. can take. These people are supposed to be his hand-picked best and brightest.

  4. 4Throbert McGee on Oct 6, 2009 at 7:38 am:

    Zombie, I sent the link for this to one of the guys at gaypatriot.net, who has done a couple posts about the Jennings/”Brewster” story. He hasn’t really touched on the Harry Hay issue, though that has come up briefly in the comments responding to his posts. (If you remember “Viking the Kitten” from ol’-skool LGF, he’s definitely been irked by the whitewashing of Hay’s NAMBLA involvement. In fact, I’ll email the link to him, too — he’ll be pleased to see it.)

  5. 5stuiec on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:05 am:

    I don’t think there is any way for Jennings to run far and fast enough to escape this connection. And given Jennings’ anecdote about his advice to his fifteen-year-old student, it’s not really clear that he has a problem with NAMBLA, is it?

    NAMBLA doesn’t advocate any lower limit on the appropriate age for boys to become sexually active with adult mentors. One famous NAMBLA poster showed a boy of about six with the caption, “Smiles Imply Consent.”

  6. 6lauraw on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:14 am:

    If he condemns Hay he will be lying.

    When he had the authority and duty to protect children in his charge, he had no problem advising a 15-yr old boy to continue a sexual relationship with a much older man (read: predator).

    It would be interesting to see if some commentators picked up on Zombie’s recommendations.

    Of course, it would be inappropriate for an actual news program to do so, but that would only demonstrate there’s no wall between commentary and reportage anymore.

  7. 7Guy Average on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:17 am:

    Once again, an outstanding bit of work.

    I heard about this yesterday on a local radio station that uses “One News Now” ( http://www.onenewsnow.com ) as a news bureau, not exactly mainstream.

    The same commentator also blogged this at ( http://action.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147487110 ) , also not mainstream.

    For what its worth, I think Kevin Jennings’ connection to NAMBLA makes him more attractive as an appointee to this administration. The reason I think that is that the pattern I see leads me to believe that this administration has a goal of creating as much chaos as possible in as many areas as possible. The factual pattern that I have observed in regard to legislation, appointments, foreign policy, domestic policy, and every area that the administration has pushed the central government into bears that observation out, I believe. Mr. Jennings NAMBLA connection appears to be more of the same.

    If you give The POTUS the benefit of the doubt and view his actions and policies as part of a plan that he has to try to remake the USA as a viable entity and a stronger and better nation then you’ll not agree with me, I guess. If you view his actions without any such preconceived notions then you can see my point of view.

    I sincerely hope I am wrong; maybe the irony of the “Hope” part of HopeNChange is that everyone sits idly by, hoping that the POTUS has our best interest in mind, while he pulls the rug out from under us. Again, I hope I am wrong.

  8. 8Guy Average on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:21 am:

    stuiec: I don’t think there is any way for Jennings to run far and fast enough to escape this connection. And given Jennings’ anecdote about his advice to his fifteen-year-old student, it’s not really clear that he has a problem with NAMBLA, is it?NAMBLA doesn’t advocate any lower limit on the appropriate age for boys to become sexually active with adult mentors. One famous NAMBLA poster showed a boy of about six with the caption, “Smiles Imply Consent.”

    NAMBLA has a slogan “Sex By Eight Or It’s Too Late“.

    The number is an age not a time of day.

  9. 9Ed Mahmoud on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:29 am:

    Can we get Viking the Kitten posting here?

    Has anybody informed Zombie yet that his supposed sock puppet “Chicken Kiev, and he have been blocked by he of the too tight ponytail?

  10. 10Chuck's Crack Dealer on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:30 am:

    Great work Zombie, as usual!

    This post has been linked here – I’d do a trackback, but it’s not my blog and I dont’ know how to do one in BlogSpot.

  11. 11Ed Mahmoud on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:32 am:

    I thought the “sex by year eight” was the Paul Bunyan (sounds like, anyway) society.

  12. 12Guy Average on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:35 am:

    With egg on my face, I must admit that my post above (#8) is incorrect. The motto is for the Rene Guyon Society . Rene Guyon would likely agree with NAMBLA, however.

  13. 13Marcus on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:50 am:

    I seriously doubt this will have any impact at all. These people are totally without shame, and this will be seen as simply another “attack from the right wing hate machine.” I will be surprised to see a word of this in the “newspaper of record” for example.

    It is, however, one more indication of how far wrong things have become. We will not protect the unborn, nor will we protect the young. We apparently will no longer protect the elderly, and will instead expect them to “take the blue pill.” And this is all acceptable, as long as we protect people like Jennings and Hay.

  14. 14Ed Mahmoud on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:05 am:

    This will never appear on the nets or cable or the papers. Maybe Fox. Maybe not.

    Imagine if George W Bush had someone who openly admired a founder of NAMBLA in his cabinet?

    Might have broken the 57 day streak abu Ghraib ran on the front page of the New York Times.

  15. 15eddiebear on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:16 am:

    excellent work as always, Zombie! What I am impressed with here is how this post nukes the left’s defense of Jennings out of orbit.

    Now, it is up to Jennings to refute, for silence is consent in this case.

  16. 16pat on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:17 am:

    He is a gay recruiter. One of those activists that believe you must convert young people into a gay life style in order to increase their numbers in society. These type of gays will often have another facet to their deviancy: irresponsible and prolific sexual activity.

  17. 17eddiebear on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:21 am:

    ^I don’t give two sh&ts what a guy does with another guy, so long as they are consenting adults, so let’s leave the “Teh Ghey” stuff out of this. This involves associatiosn with a very shady and disgusting group.
    That “Teh Ghey” bashing sh#t doesn’t fly with me.

  18. 18Starless on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:36 am:

    I’m putting my money on a Polanski/Hollywood style defense — circle the wagons and double down in the face of something which is an obvious wrong to basically everyone else in the world. And sorry, eddiebear, but part of it has to do with “Teh Ghey”. The part where the charge of homophobia will be thrown at anyone who dares criticize Jennings for this, which I believe has already happened with the case of the 15 year old kid.

  19. 19Dan Collins on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:39 am:

  20. 20A lots of liars here on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:46 am:

    A lots of liars repeat the smear of the “15 y.o. boy”. He was 16 at the time, which is the age of consent.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/200910020020

    A bunch of bigots.

  21. 21Lord Piltdown on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:50 am:

    Humane and logical as usual, Zombie, but I think it is too late. The story has already broken. Unless the speech praising Hay can be proven to be a fabrication from whole cloth, Jennings is going under the bus. It is impossible that anyone who knew much at all about Hay would be ignorant of his connection to NAMBLA. All the MSM obfuscation in the world will not help.

  22. 22Ed Mahmoud on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:50 am:

    Media Matters sure is an unbiased source, and certainly isn’t a wholly owned subsidiary of George “Ernst Stavro Blofeld” Soros.

  23. 23Mats on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:53 am:

    Good post, but don’t hold your breath in hoping him to distance himself from Harry Hay.

    I think Jennigs has to go. He’s done.

  24. 24A lots of liars here on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:54 am:

    “Media Matters sure is an unbiased source, and certainly isn’t a wholly owned subsidiary of George “Ernst Stavro Blofeld” Soros.”

    Do you have anything to rebut the facts? Thought so.

  25. 25Emmie on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:01 am:

    A lots of liars here: A lots of liars repeat the smear of the “15 y.o. boy”. He was 16 at the time, which is the age of consent.http://mediamatters.org/blog/200910020020A bunch of bigots.

    If he does not grasp that teenagers should not be having sex with adults, and that teenagers are absolutely off-limits to teachers until after graduation, he has no business being anywhere near a school. This is just common sense stuff. The sexual orientation doesn’t matter; the exploitation of immature human beings matters.

  26. 26A lots of liars here on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:12 am:

    Look that “age of consent” stuff up, Emmie. This is none of your fucking business as long as it’s legal.

    And what do you mean by “teenagers are absolutely off-limits to teachers until after graduation”? Do you even know what the “story” is supposed to be? Thought so.

  27. 27A lots of liars here on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:13 am:

    Hey, Zombie. Your posting is the absolute definition of “concern trolling”.

  28. 28Ringo the Gringo on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:15 am:

    #20 A lots of liars here

    “A lots of liars repeat the smear of the “15 y.o. boy”. He was 16 at the time, which is the age of consent.”

    A – Jennings, himself, admits that he thought the boy was 15.

    B – I doubt that very many Americans are going to be impressed by the fact that the boy was 16 rather than 15. Most people are disgusted by the idea of a teenage boy having sex with an older men that he met in a public restroom. And the fact that Jennings’, who was a public school teacher at the time, only advised to the boy to be sure to “wear a condom” the next time, is appalling to any average person – not to mention a betrayal of the trust that parents have in the teachers with whom they entrust their children.

  29. 29Finally Free on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:31 am:

    A lots of liars here: Hey, Zombie. Your posting is the absolute definition of “concern trolling”.

    You meant to post this to the mirror?

  30. 30Emmie on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:38 am:

    I did not mean to imply that Jennings was hitting on the student. I was simply talking about point of view. High school teachers need to understand that teenagers should not be involved with adults–real adults not kinda-sorta-18 year-old adults–sexually.

    If you don’t grasp that a 16 year old should not be sexually involved with adults, we cannot have a conversation. Their brains aren’t even finished yet. They lack life experience to understand the consequences of their actions.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/interviews/giedd.html

  31. 31Anonymous on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:43 am:

    omg…..does this administration know no bottom? do these progressive zealots have any common sense or decency? they will explain this away and try to discredit the messanger….

  32. 32Dane on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:49 am:

    Good stuff Zombie.

  33. 33doppelganglander on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:51 am:

    By “safe schools,” Jennings seems to mean “safe for child predators.” A teenager having a sexual relationship with an adult, whether it’s heterosexual or homosexual, is obviously troubled. The boy in question went to Jennings for counseling – he KNEW he needed help – and all he got was a cheerful reminder about condoms. This is not a case of a boy who fell in love with, say, a college student a few years older than himself. He was picked up in the men’s room of a bus station by a much older man. Never mind the gay angle – what would you think of a 16-year-old girl in the same situation? I’m a mother, and I’ll tell you I’d want to be told so I could get my daughter into counseling to find out why she was seeking such destructive relationships.

  34. 34Jai on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:02 pm:

    omg…..does this administration know no bottom?

    I think they know a lot of “bottoms”.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  35. 35Anonymous on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:20 pm:

    I’ve read a few LGBT history books in which Harry Hay and the Mattachine Society which he founded were mentioned. Not in one of these books were Harry Hay’s despicable activities and affiliations mentioned. Let’s put on our thinking hats, people (you too Zombie). The types of LGBT history books a gay person would read would be written by people sympathetic to the gay rights movement (probably gay themselves). So… these books, if they mentioned Harry Hay at all, would probably not mention his despicable activities and affiliations (I can’t say that this is the case for _all_ books, only the 3 or 4 I’ve read).

    I, myself, didn’t become aware of these things about Harry Hay until he was the Grand Marshall of the Pride Parade. And at first, I dismissed these things as a smear… I’m not sure when I became convinced they were credible, but it was not immediately. I’ve _never_ seen, until this posting, a collection of such irrefutable evidence as what Zombie has posted here.

    So putting it all together:
    1) It’s ENTIRELY plausible that Jennings never knew any of these things about Harry Hay at the time he made his statement.
    2) Even if he had heard some allegations, it’s entirely plausible he would dismiss them as smears that had no truth in reality.

    And as for this story with the 16-year-old boy, and the advice Jennings gave to him…
    Jennings, from all available evidence, including a statement made recently by the boy himself (which Zombie linked to in his post… which a lot of you didn’t read, I guess), exercised EXCELLENT judgment.

    Let me repeat that: Jennings exercised EXCELLENT judgment in his handling of the situation with the 16-year-old.
    Jennings did _not_ just tell him to “use a condom” and send him on his way. That was only part of the advice he gave. In his book he says he “I listened, sympathized, and offered advice.”

    What’s wrong with that? No, a 16-year-old boy shouldn’t be involved with an older man (or woman) — and I hope that was part of Jennings advice (we have no reason to believe it wasn’t). But for those of you that think Jennings should have reported this to the police, keep in mind this was 1988. Would it please you to have the kid get kicked out of his house because his parents find out he’s gay? Bullied/beaten by classmates? Have to move to a different school? Become homeless and destitute for the rest of his life? For those of you saying he should have “helped” the boy — you don’t help anyone by making their situation worse.

    As for his advice on using a condom — would you rather this 16-year-old get AIDS? Should that not have been part of his advice?

  36. 36Worried mom on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:23 pm:

    Flood them with calls:
    Safe and Drug-Free Schools and Communities Advisory Committee
    U.S. Department of Education, Suite 10000
    550 12th Street, S.W.,
    Washington, DC 20202
    Office: (202) 245-7895
    Email: SDFSC Advisory Committee
    Fax: (202) 245-7168

  37. 37yarrrrr on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:23 pm:

    Here is a thought exercise for liberals… what if a Republican appointed a person to this position who praised someone deeply associated with NARTH?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_for_Research_&_Therapy_of_Homosexuality

    I guarantee that person would be forced out of their job… it wouldn’t matter if they said they didn’t agree with their views… they would be laughed at and mocked… there would be petitions from numerous professional organizations demanding his resignation… it would be brought up on the floor of congress… it would lead the evening news casts…

    Now I don’t agree with NARTH, but I don’t consider NARTH to be an evil organization… NAMBLA is…

  38. 38HiHo on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:29 pm:

  39. 39Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:39 pm:

    “28 Ringo the Gringo on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:15 am:

    A – Jennings, himself, admits that he thought the boy was 15.”

    That is a fair point. But then again, Jennings himself was merely 24 at the time.

    Here is how he describes it:

    “I was a closeted gay teacher, 24 years old, didn’t know what to say. Knew I should say something quickly so I finally said, “My best friend had just died of AIDS the week before.” I looked at Brewster and said, “You know, I hope you knew to use a condom.” ”

    That young and inexperienced teacher did not know what to say then. That was 20 years ago. Only far right extremist freaks will spit fire and brimstone about this non-story.

  40. 40CattusMagnus on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:44 pm:

    “Kevin Jennings, we know you do not support this kind of statement, and you are not “inspired” by the kind of activism Harry Hay exhibits here.”

    How do we know that Jennings doesn’t support that statement if he hasn’t explicitly said so? How do we know that Jennings was not inspired by what Harry Hay said in the statement you reference?

  41. 41Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:46 pm:

    “37yarrrrr on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:23 pm:

    Here is a thought exercise for liberals… what if a Republican appointed a person to this position who praised someone deeply associated with NARTH? ”

    If Jennings did it knowingly, there is some food for thought here. Of course nobody has presented any evidence that Jennings knew this information and believed it to be true.

    “Now I don’t agree with NARTH, but I don’t consider NARTH to be an evil organization… NAMBLA is…”

    OF course, the fact that you don’t consider NARTH to be an evil organization makes you no better than someone who thinks that NAMBLA is not an evil org.

  42. 42Finally Free on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:50 pm:

    Debunking lying liars: “28 Ringo the Gringo on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:15 am:
    Only far right extremist freaks will spit fire and brimstone about this non-story.

    These so-called “far-right extremists” have no better recruiting tool than the intellectually and morally corrupt defenders of the indefensible. It is those like you that drove me out of the “left” a decade ago.

    “Woe unto those that call evil good, and good evil.”

  43. 43Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:51 pm:

    Finally Free, I suggest you seek a treatment for logorrhea. Can’t help you there, sorry.

  44. 44bgates on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:54 pm:

    That is a fair point.

    That’s the only point, you irresponsible partisan jackass. It means that your entire defense of Jennings is, “he only thought he was breaking the law by not reporting the sexual abuse of a minor”.

  45. 45chaos on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:56 pm:

    “Lying liars” I suggest you suggest treatment for extreme obtuseness and inability to reason. Can’t help you there, sorry.

  46. 46Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:58 pm:

    “44bgates on Oct 6, 2009 at 12:54 pm:

    That is a fair point.

    That’s the only point, you irresponsible partisan jackass. It means that your entire defense of Jennings is, “he only thought he was breaking the law by not reporting the sexual abuse of a minor”.”

    Hey, wingnut, I have no idea whether it’s “breaking the law” or not, nor do I care. That happened 20 freaking years ago to a young teacher who did not know better at the time. Only an anti-American partisan jackass would use this story to smear a worthy person.

  47. 47Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:00 pm:

    Hey, chaos, logorrhea? Check. Inability to respond to arguments? Check. Sorry, can’t help you too, I’m not a mother Teresa.

  48. 48yarrrrr on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:01 pm:

    “OF course, the fact that you don’t consider NARTH to be an evil organization makes you no better than someone who thinks that NAMBLA is not an evil org.”

    There is no equivalency between NARTH and NAMBLA… you must know nothing about either organization…

  49. 49esurience on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:02 pm:

    yarrrrr,
    NARTH is an evil organization. They cloak themselves in pseudo-science and the only function of their organization is to attempt to cause misery and despair in the lives of gay people, especially children, by convincing them it it necessary to change something which is unchangeable, or else they can never be happy and self-fulfilled.

    As for you “thought experiment” (even though I’m not a liberal, I’ll take you up on it anyway, sorry if that skews the result you were hoping for): If a Republican praised someone who was affiliated with NARTH, yes, I’d certainly have a problem with that — but only if I knew they had an awareness of that person’s affiliation with NARTH at the time they praised them. Even then, as long as they distanced themselves from that person’s NARTH activities, I wouldn’t have (much) of a problem.

    But your hypothetical isn’t really analogous to this situation. Republicans are, in general, not very gay-friendly. So it’s pretty reasonable from the get-go to assume a Republican is sympathetic to an organization like NARTH (you yourself seem to indicate you have such sympathy). If that Republican then praised someone who was affiliated with NARTH, that would just be icing on the cake. There’s no corresponding situation with Kevin Jennings.

  50. 50Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:03 pm:

    “There is no equivalency between NARTH and NAMBLA… you must know nothing about either organization…”

    But of course there is. One promotes the idea that fucking little boys is OK. Another promotes the idea that being gay is a form of a disease. Both are evil.

  51. 51Ed Mahmoud on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:05 pm:

    Um, what is “NARTH”?

    North American Rat Turtle Huggers?

  52. 52Lincolntf on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:07 pm:

    At the very least, we know Jennings is a gibbering nutbag. Check out the audio clip at Breitbart in which he fairly pouts about high-school proms being “aggressive recruitment for heterosexuals”.
    The guy is an idiot whether or not he knew the Nambla ties of his intellectual hero.

  53. 53CattusMagnus on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:09 pm:

    #39 Debunking Lying Liars,

    You’re right. Expecting an inexperienced, closeted, gay 24 year-old teacher to know the difference between right and wrong is just asking too much. Kudos for bringing clarity to the matter.

  54. 54yarrrrr on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:09 pm:

    “But your hypothetical isn’t really analogous to this situation. Republicans are, in general, not very gay-friendly. ”

    Democrats aren’t very Christian friendly… and we have quotes from Jennings to prove that…

    “So it’s pretty reasonable from the get-go to assume a Republican is sympathetic to an organization like NARTH (you yourself seem to indicate you have such sympathy).”

    Why isn’t it pretty reasonable to assume that Jennings sympathizes with NAMBLA? Who gets to decide the reasonableness of these accusations? He was OK with what he thought was a 15 year old having sex with older men… wrote the forward to “Queering Elementary Education”, and praised a long time apologist for NAMBLA as being a huge inspiration for himself…

  55. 55Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:10 pm:

    “52Lincolntf on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:07 pm:

    At the very least, we know Jennings is a gibbering nutbag. Check out the audio clip at Breitbart in which he fairly pouts about high-school proms being “aggressive recruitment for heterosexuals”.
    The guy is an idiot whether or not he knew the Nambla ties of his intellectual hero.”

    And where were you when idiot Bush was the president? And did you vote for the idiot Sarah in the last election? Maybe you should just STFU about idiots?

  56. 56Rev. Dr. E. Buzz Miller on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:14 pm:

    So I’m supposed to believe that the members of a group that defines themselves solely on their sexuality and have parades in the street where they give each others blow jobs out in the open are not the type of people who descend into NAMBLA stuff?

    Sorry, but that is too much to believe. Now, if Larry Craig were a big fan of Harry Hay, I’m pretty damn sure we’d hear about it.

    Amazing how much really weird leftism is washing up in this moron’s administration.

  57. 57esurience on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:14 pm:

    yarrrr,

    Who says Jennings was OK with the 16-year-old’s relationship with the older man? Where are you hearing this? Are you just making this up? And if you think it would have been a good idea to report the matter to the police (which would have been inappropriate since the boy was over the age of consent), then please respond to my other post (which I accidentally posted anonymously). I asked:

    No, a 16-year-old boy shouldn’t be involved with an older man (or woman) — and I hope that was part of Jennings advice (we have no reason to believe it wasn’t). But for those of you that think Jennings should have reported this to the police, keep in mind this was 1988. Would it please you to have the kid get kicked out of his house because his parents find out he’s gay? Bullied/beaten by classmates? Have to move to a different school? Become homeless and destitute for the rest of his life? For those of you saying he should have “helped” the boy — you don’t help anyone by making their situation worse.

    As for his advice on using a condom — would you rather this 16-year-old get AIDS? Should that not have been part of his advice?

  58. 58HiHo on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:15 pm:

    #39 Seeing Lying Liars Under His Bed “Only an anti-American partisan jackass would use this story to smear a worthy person.

    But you are question begging: the question is whether the man actually IS worthy. The story may be about a worthy man at a confused point in his life, or it may be about a troublingly amoral or confused man. Certainly Harry Hay is a problematic figure: he has put his political agenda ahead of ordinary public safety. If Jennings cannot see that his admiration of Mr Hays other abilities should be tempered by this fact, then he is not a worthy man. Focus please.

  59. 59yarrrrr on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:16 pm:

    “Kids are being aggressively recruited to become heterosexual in this country.”

    http://www.breitbart.tv/uncoverd-audio-obamas-safe-schools-czar-criticizes-schools-for-promoting-heterosexuality/

  60. 60Rev. Dr. E. Buzz Miller on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:17 pm:

    Bush isn’t President.

    Obama is.

    Bill Ayers is his close confidant.

    Weird leftism abounds, and the type of sick shit ZT unearthed is what Barry’s brain and his buddies’ brains are comprised of.

    Or should we forget about Rev. Dr. Jerry Wright…or the lunatics Dohrn and Ayers, the people who wrote Barry’s first autobiography.

    I wonder if Barney Frank is a big fan of Harry hay, I bet he is.

  61. 61Lincolntf on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:17 pm:

    Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:10 pm:

    Another Bush-obsessed twit desperately trying to deflect attention from the latest in the parade of moonbats and morons that Obama has surrounded himself with.

  62. 62Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:17 pm:

    “53CattusMagnus on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:09 pm:

    #39 Debunking Lying Liars,

    You’re right. Expecting an inexperienced, closeted, gay 24 year-old teacher to know the difference between right and wrong is just asking too much. Kudos for bringing clarity to the matter.”

    You weren’t there and know nothing about how the situation looked at that time and that place. You’re seeking clarity where there can be none. Well, actually it is clear (to us and to the older Jennings) that he had made a mistake. IS this a reason to call for his resignation? Obviously, no. Only in the world of far right slime such a thought may seem reasonable.

  63. 63esurience on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:19 pm:

    Rev. Dr. E. Buzz Miller on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:14 pm:

    So I’m supposed to believe that the members of a group that defines themselves solely on their sexuality and have parades in the street where they give each others blow jobs out in the open are not the type of people who descend into NAMBLA stuff?

    Yeah, you are supposed to believe that. I’ve been to the Pride Parade in San Francisco on several occasions. I’ve never given a blowjob there, or gotten one. And no, I don’t define myself solely on my sexuality. That’s a pretty outrageous thing to say, considering that heterosexuals often wear a band on their finger to indicate they are heterosexual, and the majority of heterosexuals don’t want gay people doing the same thing.

  64. 64yarrrrr on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:20 pm:

    “esurience on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:14 pm”

    Good points, I dunno…

  65. 65Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:21 pm:

    “61Lincolntf on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:17 pm:

    Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:10 pm:

    Another Bush-obsessed twit desperately trying to deflect attention from the latest in the parade of moonbats and morons that Obama has surrounded himself with.”

    So did you vote for Sarah the Brainless or not? Did you vote for Dumbya or not? Any “yes” disqualifies you from this discussion. And if you voted for Palin, you’re simply a moron.

  66. 66HiHo on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:23 pm:

    That’s a pretty outrageous thing to say, considering that heterosexuals often wear a band on their finger to indicate they are heterosexual, and the majority of heterosexuals don’t want gay people doing the same thing.

    Heterosexuals don’t wear wedding bands to declare that they are heterosexual. Or perhaps you think that homosexuals who get married wear wedding bands to declare that they are homosexual? A reasonable conclusion is that se you identify yourself very strongly by your sexuality, and are projecting that trait on to heterosexuals. Common enough.

  67. 67esurience on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:25 pm:

    yarrrrr,

    Did you actually listen to the remarks he made in the video you just posted?

    What he’s saying is the whole idea of “promoting homosexuality” or “promoting heterosexuality” is ridiculous. You can’t actually promote heterosexuality or homosexuality. As he says in the video, which you posted, but didn’t watch (or didn’t comprehend)… if “promoting heterosexuality” worked, there wouldn’t be any gay people. Because all schools have students read books, watch movies, go to dances, etc, in which heterosexuality is proudly on display. He is ridiculing the idea that a book which features gay characters should be considered “promoting homosexuality,” by pointing out that, if those books really did “promote homosexuality” then schools ALSO do plenty of promoting heterosexuality — and we know that doesn’t work.

  68. 68Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:28 pm:

    esurience, thanks, I suspected as much – that the wingnuts simply twisted Jennings’ words. Oh well, right-wing liars, shocka!

    Yawn. Nice chatting with ya’ll. If I needed a confirmation of the far right dumbassery, I got it here.

  69. 69Ed Mahmoud on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:28 pm:

    Republicans aren’t gay friendly?

    Although I do not approve of it on religious grounds, I have no problem with what two consenting people do in private as long as nobody gets hurt.

    Now, street parades with drag queens, dykes on bikes, well, no particularly comfortable witn it, but if they keep the parades in the Castro or Montrose or Provincetown or wherever gays congregate, well, live and let live.

    But daylight sex orgies (as seen in Zombie’s “Up Your Alley Fare” photos), urine drinking, gay men wanting to sleep in tents with teenage boys (if you think that is homophobic would it be ok if I slept in a tent in the woods with a 15 year old girl?), indoctrination at the pre-school/early elementary level (Heather has Two Mommies type stuff), well, I’m kind of against it.

    Civil unions that give gay people the right to inherit and make medical decisions for each other, I’m cool with, “marriage”, which is the first step to making marriage meaningless and is a Gramscian attack on the family unit, not so cool with.

    Nope, not anti-gay at all. I used to be a regular blog pal with Frank IBC, and even posted weather highlights at Gay Patriot, but they kept getting deleted. So no more Gay Patriot.

    But I totally support gay people having all the rights of straight people. I think hate crimes is a stupid concept, if someone commits assault, it is a criminal act whether they were stealing a watch or thought someone was gay. And, while I’m not sure why they’d want to, gays are entitled to marry just like straights are, as long as it is a mixed gender marriage.

    Barney Frank was married and had children before he ‘came out’, so he wasn’t denied the chance to marry.

    But anyway, any gay person who keeps his/her sex life semi-private, favors limited government, low taxes, supports the First, Second and Tenth amendments (heck, all of the Constitution) is ok by me.

  70. 70Lincolntf on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:30 pm:

    Debunking lying liars on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:21 pm:

    I already gave out all my troll-snacks for the day. No more for you.

  71. 71Rev. Dr. E. Buzz Miller on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:32 pm:

    “And no, I don’t define myself solely on my sexuality.”

    Sure you do, if you marched in that parade, you do.

    Tell me, the last time a bunch of straights went around and paraded celebrating their sexuality was when?

    You come to this site and say that there is no public sex at those parades? You might want to look around.

    A ring, a little ring, compared to public sex.

    There’s reality, and there is the bs you proposed.

  72. 72HiHo on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:36 pm:

    67 esurience I think you are right about what Jennings was intending to say. I don’t actually agree with his point, but you are right that he is not criticising schools for promoting heterosexuality.

  73. 73esurience on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:45 pm:

    Rev. Dr. E. Buzz Miller on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:32 pm:
    “And no, I don’t define myself solely on my sexuality.”

    Sure you do, if you marched in that parade, you do.

    Being gay is an important part of my identity. I don’t “define” myself by it. Why is it important? Only because of the way society treats it. Being gay means I can’t get married, can’t join the military, can’t work for some employers without fear of being discriminated against, and it means a large chunk of society views me as “immoral” simply because of my sexual orientation. I’d have to be completely oblivious and ignorant of the world I lived in, if I didn’t think about myself being gay a little more often than you think of yourself as being straight.

    Tell me, the last time a bunch of straights went around and paraded celebrating their sexuality was when?

    Do you decline wedding invitations with a letter that says “Stop parading your sexuality in front of me!!” ?
    How about school dances? Homecoming queen/king? Does that not “parade heterosexuality”? How about Mardi Gras where girls get beads thrown at them for lifting up their shirts in front of men?

    You come to this site and say that there is no public sex at those parades? You might want to look around.
    Nope, you’re bearing false witness there. I never said that. It does occur, and I don’t approve of it, and don’t participate in it.

  74. 74Dane on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:47 pm:

    Debunking lying liars: “52Lincolntf on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:07 pm:
    At the very least, we know Jennings is a gibbering nutbag. Check out the audio clip at Breitbart in which he fairly pouts about high-school proms being “aggressive recruitment for heterosexuals”.
    The guy is an idiot whether or not he knew the Nambla ties of his intellectual hero.”And where were you when idiot Bush was the president? And did you vote for the idiot Sarah in the last election? Maybe you should just STFU about idiots?

    Classic deflection. And you get bonus points for your civil tone.

  75. 75Anonymous on Oct 6, 2009 at 2:40 pm:

    This from Weasel Zippers:

    PARIS (AP) – A French gay soccer team says its members were victims of homophobia when a team of Muslim players refused to play a match against them.

    The Paris Foot Gay team says Tuesday it received an e-mail from the Creteil Bebel club canceling a match scheduled for last Sunday.

    “Because of the principles of our team, which is a team of devout Muslims, we can’t play against you,” the e-mail said, according to Paris Foot Gay. The e-mail received Saturday said, “Our convictions are much more important than a simple football match.”

    Paris Foot Gay said in a statement that it asked the amateur league to sanction Creteil Bebel.

  76. 76zombie on Oct 6, 2009 at 2:58 pm:

    A lots of liars here: A lots of liars repeat the smear of the “15 y.o. boy”. He was 16 at the time, which is the age of consent.http://mediamatters.org/blog/200910020020A bunch of bigots.

    That’s a completely different scandal, unrelated to what this post is about. Off-topic. Irrelvant. Read the beginning of my post again. It says:

    (And no, I’m not talking about the earlier uproar over your advice to a student.)

    Then read the update at the bottom of this post.

    This is just going to get bigger. Sorry. Don’t blame me for reporting the facts. As I say, Jennings can defuse this burgeoning scandal right now by just coming out and condemning Harry Hay in no uncertain terms. When he does, I will post his statement and let the matter drop. But until that time, this story is still a live wire.

  77. 77arhooley on Oct 6, 2009 at 3:18 pm:

    Zombie, what are you trying to accomplish with this item? To help Kevin Jennings save his career? Or to warn him that it’s about to end, and he can make that end either quiet or noisy? I ask merely for clarification.

  78. 78duh! on Oct 6, 2009 at 3:18 pm:

    For the most part, anybody who thinks it’s ok for a pedophile to engage in sexual activity with a minor should be tarred and feathered and run out of town. Bunch of fn weirdos. No wonder this country is going down the tubes.

  79. 79happyfeet on Oct 6, 2009 at 3:19 pm:

    Mr. Jennings doesn’t support fucking children so it’s wrong to suggest he does.

  80. 80ukuleledave on Oct 6, 2009 at 3:28 pm:

    And read Jennings entire introduction to Queering Elementary Education, a compilation of articles which he clearly has read, and supports. (In other words he can’t just say he “wrote a blurb.” He is on board with the general tone of the book, which I can see through the Google peak feature is a massively over the top piece on introducing gay themes to elementary school.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=3jrULETBwt8C&dq=Queering+Elementary+Education&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=cMLLSsDdNdqntgf_vs3lCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=&f=false

    He is seriously headed under O’s bus. (Have Hannity and Beck started this yet?)

    Look at his writings, and the subjects he is closely associated with. I’d rather get stuck in an elevator with Letterman or Polanski than this guy. I want him nowhere near my school. (I teach.) In fact, that would be one way to keep it safe.

  81. 81Anonymous on Oct 6, 2009 at 3:42 pm:

    Thanks to the links here (and hereabouts) it only takes about 20 minutes of looking online to ascertain the pattern of Jennings mixing sexual politics with his life as a professional educator. That has been his entire career. Of all the possible “Safe School Czars” out there, Obama chooses this dude?
    Barry is either totally clueless or one sick puppy.

  82. 82esurience on Oct 6, 2009 at 3:44 pm:

    Zombie,

    Yeah, there’s a chapter on Harry Hay. But it’s a history book. I’m looking at the chapter right now, no mention of Harry Hay’s modern day affiliations. So what’s your point? (And Kevin Jennings didn’t co-author the book, he edited it. He wrote the introduction, including an introduction for each chapter, as well as discussion questions. The book is an anthology from different authors).

  83. 83esurience on Oct 6, 2009 at 3:57 pm:

    And what’s with all this talk about the “Queering Education” book? I’ve yet to see a quote produced from it…
    Kids are coming out younger these days, to both their family and being out in their school (see this article). It’s actually a good thing that there is someone with Kevin Jennings experience in our education department. Don’t you believe schools should be a safe place for students to learn, regardless of their sexual orientation, or the composition of their family? (I’m guessing some of you don’t, but it’s not something you should be proud of).

  84. 84Tim on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:06 pm:

    Amazing, when you can’t find any facts, evidence, or actual quotes from the guy. He is pretty clear what party of Hay’s work he was admiring and inspired by, yet you can make him a kid toucher.

    This is sick. You need to get a life, and start fighting an ideological that you can grasp and actually rebuke. Sliming people by association and then claiming you’re trying to help them is really low. Saying you’re trying to help him and acknowledging the work he’s done only makes it that much lower. If you really believe he’s done good work you wouldn’t spent hours researching Harry Hay’s political work which Jennings probably never knew about or would ever endorse. Now, this is just pure condescension and mud slinging. You should be very ashamed.

  85. 85Throbert McGee on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:07 pm:

    Erm, testing!

  86. 86Throbert McGee on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:09 pm:

    Let me repeat that: Jennings exercised EXCELLENT judgment in his handling of the situation with the 16-year-old.

    No, it was emphatically not “excellent” judgment. An A+, gold-star response to the boy would’ve been something more like, “You know, just because you’ve already had sex doesn’t mean you can’t take a couple steps back, put your trust in your own right hand, and resolve to abstain from sex with another person for several more years — at least till you’re old enough to vote and serve in the military, although no one has ever gotten in trouble by waiting even a little bit longer than that.”

    Short of that, a C+ effort might’ve been to say, “Well, I can’t stop you from doing this kind of thing, but I hope that you’ll at least play it extra safe by sticking to handjobs when you fool around with another guy, instead of ‘going all the way’ and putting your faith in a condom.”

  87. 87Throbert McGee on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:18 pm:

    (cont.) But simply saying “use a condom” not only gives an implicit green light to teenage sex generally, in the context of counseling a gay teenage boy, it gives the kid zero empowerment to resist being cajoled into anal sex — which is substantially more risky than fellatio and hugely, enormously more risky than mutual masturbation.

    And for the hetero majority here, I cannot overemphasize the point that if you’re a young and inexperienced homosexual male, curiosity about trying handjobs and BJs with another guy comes as naturally as swimming does to a fish, but you gotta be talked and talked and coaxed and wheedled into your first experience of being an anal “bottom”. And then it takes more coaxing and wheedling to keep on trying it and “getting practice” so that you eventually learn to find it pleasurable rather than “Ouch! Pull it out pull it out, damn!”

    (If it isn’t self-explanatory why this is the truth, find yourself a large, unpeeled banana and insert it 3 or 4 inches into your mouth. Then take that same banana and stick it the same distance up your ass. Now, which act was totally simple and painless, and which one wasn’t?)

  88. 88CattusMagnus on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:22 pm:

    #62 Debunking Lying Liars

    You weren’t there and know nothing about how the situation looked at that time and that place. You’re seeking clarity where there can be none.

    This is a valid point. Perhaps I shouldn’t criticize Jennings because I wasn’t there. But, by the same token, one who wasn’t there in that time or place shouldn’t be defending Jennings either.

    Well, actually it is clear (to us and to the older Jennings) that he had made a mistake. IS this a reason to call for his resignation?

    He should have known better. Anyone with half a brain should have known better. And it is insulting to the intelligence of gays, rookie teachers and 24 year-olds to insinuate that for some reason they are not capable of handing an ethical dilemma. I’m not calling for his resignation but a big red flag should go up when you find that the “Safe Schools Czar” chose to avoid confrontation, for whatever reason, and left a student in a dangerous situation. Couple that with calling Harry Hays inspiring, and we’ve got a major question of character. This isn’t a witch hunt. Zombie is right to call on Jennings to clarify/repudiate his views on Hays, and others are right to question his “advice” given to a child who was sleeping with an adult.

  89. 89Blue Collar Todd on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:32 pm:

    It should be noted that the tolerance of pedophilia is central to the gay rights agenda. So you cannot separate the two movements. We now have Liberals tolerating pedophilia with support for Polanski and Jennings, what ought that tell you?

  90. 90Amy on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:33 pm:

    Hannity has the audio of the speech…do’t know if anyone else posted that but I’m in a bit of a rush. Great work, as usual, Zombie.

  91. 91Boggs on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:43 pm:

    The only differance between a NAMBLA member and Kevin Jennings is a official membership card.

  92. 92Emmie on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:45 pm:

    You have no justification for this remark, Boggs. There is no evidence for this. Harry Hays is the one in the photographs. Zombie is calling for Jennings to repudiate Hays and Nambla.

  93. 93ArmyWife on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:49 pm:

    I think it might be too late for Mr. Jennings. This IS getting out slowly but surely.

    The core concept of what Mr. Jennings was trying to do is commendable – no one should be bullied or mistreated. What is distressing to me is that the administration either 1. didn’t care or didn’t think Mr. Jennings’ past was problematic, or 2. no one checked. I find it very hard to believe they couldn’t find a person who has the skills and ability to be a “safe school czar” that doesn’t support – indirectly or not – sex with children.

  94. 94ArmyWife on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:53 pm:

    Blue Collar Todd –

    and why should this be “noted”? Proof? Facts? Anything?

  95. 95Joshua on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 pm:

    #69 Ed Mahmoud: As far as I can find, Barney Frank was never married to a woman and never had any children. You are probably thinking of someone else, although I don’t know who that would be.

  96. 96realwest on Oct 6, 2009 at 5:19 pm:

    #86 Throbert McGee – just an excellent piece of work. Truly spot on comment.

    And Zombie, just more of your usual fine work. You are a TREASURE for all of us!
    Thanks.

  97. 97sarainitaly on Oct 6, 2009 at 5:21 pm:

    Also on the web: In 1986, Hay’s pro-NAMBLA activism had a role in what became known in homosexual circles as the “Harry Hay incident.” As part of a protest against the Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade, Hay taunted organizers for excluding the North American Man/Boy Love Association by wearing a sandwich board that read, “NAMBLA Walks with Me.” This event is chronicled by Hay’s biographer, homosexual writer Stuart Timmons, in The Trouble with Harry Hay: Founder of the Modern Gay Movement. The book includes a photo of Hay in the NAMBLA sandwich board.

    More recently, Hay wrote an essay for the magazine GAYME. GAYME is a magazine for men who are sexually “into boys,” according to one Web reviewer. It is produced by former NAMBLA Bulletin editor Bill Andriette.

  98. 98Thomas von der Trave on Oct 6, 2009 at 5:22 pm:

    Who died and made you Grand Inquisitor, Zombie? And an anonymous one at that.

    I hope you lose your incognito status over this. It’s about time the world found out who you really are.

  99. 99Anonymous on Oct 6, 2009 at 5:35 pm:

  100. 100Anonymous on Oct 6, 2009 at 5:39 pm:

    Other authors illustrate the need to use songs about homosexuality in grade schools (“Mama, What’s a Dyke?”), and the need to incorporate literature into the curriculum that affirms comfortable friendships between young boys and adult homosexual men.
    One of the most revealing essays in “Queering Elementary Education” tells us about a young girl named Steph. Her mom writes the essay describing the benefits of 8-year-old Steph’s world of “mobility and ambiguity.” Steph “attends queer events with her parents’ friends,” and “her father is now primary caregiver supported by a network of multicultural and multisexual friends.”
    Steph’s mom relates a conversation with Steph about what’s missing from her sex education classes at school: “… the clitoris!” For by the time she was 7, Steph was “taught that it is the clitoris that gives her pleasure when she masturbates.” Of course, this isn’t surprising, since in another passage, Steph and her mother agree that, while watching a group of young girls, they are both attracted to the same 12-year-old. Steph has a teen girlfriend who regularly stays at their house for sleepovers who has confided she’s a lesbian.

    From here: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=77640

  101. 101happyfeet on Oct 6, 2009 at 5:48 pm:

    those click here to quote comment thingies are neat

  102. 102Anonymous on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:02 pm:

    Emmie: You have no justification for this remark, Boggs. There is no evidence for this. Harry Hays is the one in the photographs. Zombie is calling for Jennings to repudiate Hays and Nambla.

    Here’s the problem: Jennings has done scholarly work on the history of the Gay Rights movement. He knows who Harry Hay was, from his emergence as an activist at the end of the 1940s to his death in 2002. It strains credulity beyond the breaking point to think that Jennings in 1997 had, gosh, just no idea that his inspiration Harry Hay was deeply involved in and a chief promoter of NAMBLA. Jennings would certainly have known at the time (having written a history book for teenagers on the Gay Rights movement in 1994) that the mainstream organizations of the Gay Rights movement had ostracized NAMBLA.

    Harry Hay’s very name should have been radioactive to Jennings. But far from it: Jennings cited Hay as an inspiration.

  103. 103stuiec on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:02 pm:

    Emmie: You have no justification for this remark, Boggs. There is no evidence for this. Harry Hays is the one in the photographs. Zombie is calling for Jennings to repudiate Hays and Nambla.

    Here’s the problem: Jennings has done scholarly work on the history of the Gay Rights movement. He knows who Harry Hay was, from his emergence as an activist at the end of the 1940s to his death in 2002. It strains credulity beyond the breaking point to think that Jennings in 1997 had, gosh, just no idea that his inspiration Harry Hay was deeply involved in and a chief promoter of NAMBLA. Jennings would certainly have known at the time (having written a history book for teenagers on the Gay Rights movement in 1994) that the mainstream organizations of the Gay Rights movement had ostracized NAMBLA.

    Harry Hay’s very name should have been radioactive to Jennings. But far from it: Jennings cited Hay as an inspiration.

  104. 104cbinflux on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:19 pm:

    Jennings will be leaving the WH some Sunday night real soon. Through the back door, fer sure.

    The two girls there were never in jeopardy.

  105. 105Ray on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:22 pm:

    Zombie is a member of the modern Watchmen. A masked seeker of truth and justice, who uncovers the conflicts of interest and deception of those who would harm us in pursuit of their personal agendas. They can keep nothing hidden from the Zombie, he/she will eat their brains and learn all. Zombie is here to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and he/she is all out of gum.

  106. 106Ray on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:24 pm:

    happyfeet: those click here to quote comment thingies are neat

    Indeed

  107. 107Dirk Diggler on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:24 pm:

    I find it hard to believe that Mr. Jennings knew nothing about Mr. Hay’s open support of NAMBLA.

    As zombie has pointed out, this information is not difficult for anyone with a passing interest in the man’s life to find. Someone who claimed (as Mr. Jennings has) that the man to be an “inspiration” would have a dificult time ignoring his repeated support of pedastery.

  108. 108cbinflux on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:40 pm:

    All of the partisan bickering aside, how many here would let Jennings babysit your children? Counsel your kid behind closed doors? Sleepover at Michael’s place..?

  109. 109cbinflux on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:42 pm:

    I find it hard to believe that Mr. Jennings knew nothing about Mr. Hay’s open support of NAMBLA.

    It’s possible. Obama knew next to nothing about Rev. Wright, Ayers, …

    /s

  110. 110jd on Oct 6, 2009 at 7:00 pm:

    Send the info to Bill O’reiily This is one of his pet peeves.

  111. 111Anonymous on Oct 6, 2009 at 7:12 pm:

  112. 112Throbert McGee on Oct 6, 2009 at 7:17 pm:

    I find it hard to believe that Mr. Jennings knew nothing about Mr. Hay’s open support of NAMBLA.

    Early this past weekend, Zombie approached me by email and asked me to critique and vet this story, because we’d known each other for years as fellow posters on LGF, where for a long time I was pretty much the only openly homosexual “lizard.” And one of the points that I made to Zombie in my very first email response was that Hay’s involvement with NAMBLA was a total surprise to me, despite the fact that I probably knew a lot more about Hay than the average under-40 gay man does — not because I claim to be an expert on gay activist history, but simply because I’m a geek and read a lot. So I could’ve given you, off the top of my head, about a half-dozen interesting factoids about Hay (including the absolutely delicious six-degrees-of-celebrity-separation trivia that Hay was at one time the boyfriend of Will “Grandpa Walton” Geer!! Mind you, that was way back when Hay and Geer were both young members of the American Communist Party, which is to say very roughly during the era when The Waltons was set!).

    Yet I hadn’t heard about Hay’s NAMBLA involvement until this past week, because (shocka!) it seems to have been politely ignored by “mainstream gay media” outlets, such as The Advocate and OUT magazine, as well as be the MSM generally.

  113. 113Shug on Oct 6, 2009 at 7:20 pm:

    What the Hay?

  114. 114Shug on Oct 6, 2009 at 7:24 pm:

    Zombie,
    Great report as always.

  115. 115Ringo the Gringo on Oct 6, 2009 at 7:37 pm:

    Throbert McGee,

    If Jennings honestly didn’t know about Hay’s support for NAMBLA then zombie’s option #C (in the above report) would be the best thing he could do, although there would still be left a shadow of doubt in some people’s minds.

  116. 116Shug on Oct 6, 2009 at 7:43 pm:

    76 zombie

    ” Don’t blame me for reporting the facts ”

    Good luck with that

  117. 117Throbert McGee on Oct 6, 2009 at 7:56 pm:

    Hay was at one time the boyfriend of Will “Grandpa Walton” Geer!! … very roughly during the era when The Waltons was set

    Oh, on double checking their respective bios at wikipedia, I find that (a) they met in 1934; (b) Hay was then around 22 while Geer was 10 years older; and (c) Hay credited Geer for getting him involved with the CPUSA.

    Also, when Hay was 50, he became romantically involved with a man who was only four years his junior, and the two remained together until Hay’s death almost four decades later.

    So while Hay’s boosterism and apolegetics on behalf of NAMBLA are incredibly disgusting, I think it’s even possible that Hay himself was not a pedophile. Rather, Hay may have been willing to get cozy with pedophiles because as a teenager he had been the “boy” in the “man/boy love” equation — or to put it another way, Hay was a horny teenage dude with a hard-on for “DILFs” many decades before anyone coined the term “MILF.”

    To put it even another way, if you’re a grown-up homosexual man who remembers being a 14-year-old boy in the ’80s and feverishly jacking off to the mental imagery of mmmm, Indiana Jones running around all rugged and sweaty and shirtless, it’s tempting to be semi-sympathetic to NAMBLA, for the same reason that straight guys have to studiously remind themselves that it’s wrong wrong wrong for a 36-year-old female history teacher with great tits to sleep with one of the boys in her class.

  118. 118stuiec on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:10 pm:

    Throbert #112 – yes, but who wasn’t a gay Communist back in the 1930s?

    Actually, my great-uncle Sol wasn’t gay, but he was a Communist — he was tarred and feathered by the American Legion troop in Santa Rosa one night back in the 1930s.

  119. 119Formercorpsman on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:12 pm:

    Well, I just had time to read this.

    I will admit up front, I am not all that familiar with the subject matter. This does however, seem to bring some valid questions to forefront.

    As always, thorough work Zombie.

  120. 120Formercorpsman on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:21 pm:

    Ringo the Gringo: Throbert McGee,If Jennings honestly didn’t know about Hay’s support for NAMBLA then zombie’s option #C (in the above report) would be the best thing he could do, although there would still be left a shadow of doubt in some people’s minds.

    Ringo, I just find it impossible to think there we be no suspicion of this. At the very least, given how the rumor mill goes. To be so committed to something often dictates intimate knowledge. It just seems next to impossible to me, to be so involved yet so aloof. Seems unlikely.

  121. 121Throbert McGee on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:22 pm:

    (cont. from 117)

    But of course, as Zombie has now documented, Harry Hay went far beyond being “semi-sympathetic” or “not rushing to condemn” NAMBLA. And as I wrote to Zombie this past weekend:

    It’s one thing for a gay man’s judgment of NAMBLA to be momentarily clouded by his pleasant memories of having once been a horny teenage boy who found some adult men erotically enticing; it’s quite another thing to positively and emphatically and repeatedly (and no doubt self-servingly) endorse “love” relationships with much older dudes as being vitally important to the psyche and developmental health of gay teenagers! Or, in short: *Barf*.

    And as long as I’m barfing, I should add that just because society needs to accept the fact that a small, probably one-digit percentage of teenage boys would eagerly jump through hoops of fire for the chance to have hot sex with a studly DILF like the mid-1980s Harrison Ford, and just because society ALSO needs to accept the fact that these teenage boys came up with the fantasy of sucking Indiana Jones’ massive dong all by themselves, without being “recruited” into homosexuality, absolutely does NOT mean that there are any teenage boys who fantasize about getting naked with wrinkly old Communist prunes.

  122. 122Palandine on Oct 6, 2009 at 8:29 pm:

    Thank you for what you do, Zombie. Sorry you got caught up in the Purge.

  123. 123anti-left on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:39 pm:

    “the relationship with an older man is precisely what thirteen-, fourteen-, and fifteen-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world”

    something tells me this is boldfaced for a reason, Zombie

    I don’t see this glass being half full, I see the glass being too big

  124. 124Thomas von der Trave on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:52 pm:

    Yeah, great report, Zomb. Right up there with the insidious Che t-shirts for kids.

    Rock my world.

  125. 125realwest on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:00 pm:

    #98 Thomas von der Trave
    “Who died and made you Grand Inquisitor, Zombie? And an anonymous one at that. ”

    Well, first it was a bunch of middle aged (mostly) and some younger and older folks named Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin and George Washington, and 50 others, followed by James Madison and a slew of other men; and well over a million DEAD AMERICANS to preserve Freedom of Speech. They proposed in the very first Amendment to the US Constitution that Congress shall make no law abridging the Freedom of Speech or of Press. If you are not an American, then you probably never heard of this before. It’s enshrined in something whichever nation you come from knows nothing about: Our Bill of RIghts – the first 10 Amendments to our Consititution. The United States of America is the ONLY nation on earth which has the freedoms set out in all 10 amendments. Of course, if you are an American, and are, obviously a supporter of President Obama, and you think our Constitution is fatally flawed and should talk about not FREEDOM but of social justice. And, of course, history didn’t start until Obama was an adult.

  126. 126realwest on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:04 pm:

    124Thomas von der Trave – Yes it was a great report – strange, I thought you lacked the intellectual capacity to recognize that.
    As to the “Rock my World” well, once you’ve actually, you know, accomplished something yourself, then you can say that.
    In the interim, however, I’d be more than pleased to Rock Your World. And not the way you think, either.

  127. 127zombie on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:05 pm:

    Rev. Dr. E. Buzz Miller:
    I wonder if Barney Frank is a big fan of Harry hay, I bet he is.

    Actually, no. In fact, Barney Frank is on record as opposing NAMBLA — this is even mentioned in my post above:

    …and at the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA) conference in New York that same week, which expelled NAMBLA (despite Harry’s vocal protests and subsequent disgust) under pressure from U.S. Senator Jesse Helms, the Clinton administration, gay congressman Barney Frank, and the gay and lesbian assimilationist organizations…

    Barney Frank has been a congressman for decades. He’s smart. He threw NAMBLA under the bus before there even was a bus. Don’t slander him just because he’s gay. But if you slander him for being an addle-brained liberal, I’m OK with that.

  128. 128We Will Defend to the End on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:07 pm:

    To Thomas von der Trave

    Not sure who you are but if you think there are not many of us out there that will defend Zombie to the end then I guess you have much to learn. Go back to whatever rock you crawled out from and take a good look in the mirror. There needs to come a time when we keep this crap from our kids and Obama by appointing this guy is not making it any easier for anyone to keep kids safe. What part of an old man wanting to have sex with a young boy don’t you understand. It is wrong. What do you want to see in this country? I think I know. Keep pushing it Thomas and you will soon find out how much we will take. Jennings needs to go or Obama sides with him and then again we see what he really believes. No big surprise.

  129. 129zombie on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:11 pm:

    Rev. Dr. E. Buzz Miller: So I’m supposed to believe that the members of a group that defines themselves solely on their sexuality and have parades in the street where they give each others blow jobs out in the open are not the type of people who descend into NAMBLA stuff?

    esurience: Rev. Dr. E. Buzz Miller on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:14 pm:

    Yeah, you are supposed to believe that. I’ve been to the Pride Parade in San Francisco on several occasions. I’ve never given a blowjob there, or gotten one.

    esurience, I think “Rev. Dr. E. Buzz Miller” is referring to the Folsom Street Fair and the Up Your Alley event, where people do give each other blow jobs in public. The Pride Parade is mainstream for a mainstream audience. I’ve marched in it several times — and true, no public blow jobs. He was referring to my earlier reports about Folsom and U.Y.A.

  130. 130experiencedtraveller on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:18 pm:

    Zombie, you are a real reporter.

  131. 131Mad Mullah on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:39 pm:

    Hello Zombie! You do outstanding work!

  132. 132zombie on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:40 pm:

    arhooley: Zombie, what are you trying to accomplish with this item? To help Kevin Jennings save his career? Or to warn him that it’s about to end, and he can make that end either quiet or noisy? I ask merely for clarification.

    I have no animosity against Kevin Jennings, personally. I’m just giving the guy fair warning that he’s about to face a tsunami of political fallout. He can choose to admit he made a huge mistake calling Harry Hay his inspiration, publicly apologize, and declare in no uncertain terms that Harry Hay and everything he stands for is persona non grata. If he does that, he might keep his position. But if Jennings chooses to ignore my post, he not only will damage his reputation permanently, but he will likely drag down the Obama administration with him. The documented embarrassments are going to keep coming. And coming.

    That’s why, to be perfectly frank, I hope Jennings does dig in his heels and continue to praise Harry Hay. Please, Kevin, be my guest. Defend your hero against the smears. Because that will likely be the end of the Democratic Party’s grip on power.

    You see, I’ve got Jennings in a terrible double-bind. What the average American doesn’t realize is that Harry Hay is a virtual God Among Men in the gay activist community. He’s considered the founding father of the gay movement, the George Washington/Thomas Jefferson/James Madison-combined of their entire worldview. Jennings can no more throw Hay under the bus than a Deadhead can insult Jerry Garcia.

    It’s a win-win situation for us. If Jennings steps down, then we’ve gotten rid of a completely inappropriate Safe Schools Czar (the position is supposed to focus on drugs, crime and gangs — not on enforcing Thought Crime regulations against snarky kids who call each other “fag” in the hallway [which is one of Jennings' main concerns]). If he refuses to step down, then the words “Obama” and “NAMBLA” will forever be associated in the public mind. I’m OK with either result. Though, if forced to choose, I prefer the latter.

  133. 133anti-left on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:40 pm:

    #125 realwest:

    we lost the second amendment ages ago (leaving only 9 of the original Bill of Rights left)

    a background check, ditto waiting period – are infringements
    there are no such “qualifications” on the other 9 Bills of Rights

    you don’t even need i.d. to vote for cripes sake
    something perhaps more dangerous than gun possession

  134. 134zombie on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:50 pm:

    happyfeet: Mr. Jennings doesn’t support fucking children so it’s wrong to suggest he does.

    Did you even bother to read my post? Gain a little information before jumping to conclusions and throwing around accusations.I don’t suggest Jennings “supports fucking children” as you put it. In fact, I state the opposite: I tell Jennings that since he obviously couldn’t agree with Harry Hay’s actions, then he needs to distance himself from Hay.

  135. 135CattusMagnus on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:54 pm:

    #132 Zombie

    Safe Schools Czar (the position is supposed to focus on drugs, crime and gangs — not on enforcing Thought Crime regulations against snarky kids who call each other “fag” in the hallway [which is one of Jennings' main concerns]).

    Really? They’d have their hands full with this one. About 96% of my graduating class would have to be re-educated.

  136. 136zombie on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:01 pm:

    Tim: Amazing, when you can’t find any facts, evidence, or actual quotes from the guy.He is pretty clear what party of Hay’s work he was admiring and inspired by, yet you can make him a kid toucher.This is sick.You need to get a life, and start fighting an ideological that you can grasp and actually rebuke.Sliming people by association and then claiming you’re trying to help them is really low.Saying you’re trying to help him and acknowledging the work he’s done only makes it that much lower.If you really believe he’s done good work you wouldn’t spent hours researching Harry Hay’s political work which Jennings probably never knew about or would ever endorse.Now, this is just pure condescension and mud slinging.You should be very ashamed.

    Thank you very much.

    So, you recommend that Jennings just ignores my post, or digs in his heels and defends his praise of Harry Hay? Good. Then we’re hoping for the same thing. Glad to have you on my side.

    Sorry to break the news to you, but facts don’t go away just because you want to wish them into nonexistence. The FACT is that Kevin Jennings idolizes Harry Hay. The FACT is that Harry Hay was an unapologetic advocate for sex with children. Insulting me doesn’t make those facts disappear.

    Seriously, sit down and think about it. I am the only person offering Jennings a way out. The gay-haters on the far right just want to ruin him because he promotes the “queering” of the educational system. The logic-haters of the far left want to bring ruin on the Democratic Party by letting NAMBLA into the big tent. And here I am, offering Jennings a solution to the dilemma: Throw Hay under the bus. Immediately.

    That’s not a smear. That’s a helping hand.

  137. 137zombie on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:06 pm:

    Boggs: The only differance between a NAMBLA member and Kevin Jennings is a official membership card.

    Please. No one is suggesting that Jennings himself has anything to do with NAMBLA. All I’m saying is that he is willing to conveniently look the other way and cite a NAMBLA member as his “inspiration” because it’s hip to praise Harry Hay to a gay audience. And that’s not cool — and a very dumb thing to have done.

  138. 138zombie on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:09 pm:

    Anonymous:
    Here’s the problem: Jennings has done scholarly work on the history of the Gay Rights movement.He knows who Harry Hay was, from his emergence as an activist at the end of the 1940s to his death in 2002.It strains credulity beyond the breaking point to think that Jennings in 1997 had, gosh, just no idea that his inspiration Harry Hay was deeply involved in and a chief promoter of NAMBLA.Jennings would certainly have known at the time (having written a history book for teenagers on the Gay Rights movement in 1994) that the mainstream organizations of the Gay Rights movement had ostracized NAMBLA.Harry Hay’s very name should have been radioactive to Jennings.But far from it: Jennings cited Hay as an inspiration.

    PRECISELY!

    I quote your full comment so that everyone reads it again. Spot-on observation.

  139. 139anti-left on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:15 pm:

    #136 Zombie

    your comment about lending a helping hand
    reminds me of a favorite line, from a classic war movie

    which is surprisngly apropos here, to add sarcasm to the irony

  140. 140pat on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:19 pm:

    OT Update:
    Inconvenient Censorship: Stanford U. Bans Skeptical Climate Film from Airing Interview with Global Warming Prof. Stephen Schneider — ‘You are prohibited!’
    http://climatedepot.com/a/3212/Inconvenient-Censorship-Stanford-U-Bans-Skeptical-Climate-Film-from-Airing-Interview-with-Global-Warming-Prof-Stephen-Schneider–You-are-prohibited

  141. 141zombie on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:20 pm:

    realwest:

    #98 Thomas von der Trave
    “Who died and made you Grand Inquisitor, Zombie? And an anonymous one at that. ”

    Well, first it was a bunch of middle aged (mostly) and some younger and older folks named Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin and George Washington, and 50 others,followed by James Madison and a slew of other men; and well over a million DEAD AMERICANS to preserve Freedom of Speech.They proposed in the very first Amendment to the US Constitution that Congress shall make no law abridging the Freedom of Speech or of Press.If you are not an American, then you probably never heard of this before. It’s enshrined in something whichever nation you come from knows nothing about: Our Bill of RIghts – the first 10 Amendments to our Consititution. The United States of America is the ONLY nation on earth which has the freedoms set out in all 10 amendments. Of course, if you are an American, and are, obviously a supporter of President Obama, and you think our Constitution is fatally flawed and should talk about not FREEDOM but of social justice.And, of course, history didn’t start until Obama was an adult.

    A powerful comment. Thank you. I’m almost misty-eyed.

  142. 142zombie on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:40 pm:

    CattusMagnus: #132 Zombie
    Really?They’d have their hands full with this one.About 96% of my graduating class would have to be re-educated.

    Yes, really. Jennings has mentioned many times his hyperventilating concern about kids calling each other “fag” as either an insult or (more commonly) as a faux-insult-you’re-really-my-homeboy (as in, “Hey fag, don’t tell me you actually listen to Celine Dion; here, I’ll download you some bitchin’ speed metal,”). But what’s really at the very top of Jennings’ agenda is the disturbing trend among pre-teens and tweener girls of using “gay” as a sort of general put-down adjective, or more accurately a testing-out-my-newly-found-sarcasm tool, e.g. “This math test is so gay, Kaitlin.” “Like, totally. I didn’t even study.”

    What Jennings fails to realize is the greater a taboo is placed on a word, the more likely kids will use it and mis-use it. The whole point behind using swear words and xenophobia-based slurs is to freak out and upset the grownups, and to feel like a rebel. If “fag” and “gay” are placed on the official list of Terms Which Are Forbidden to Speak, you can rest assured their usage will skyrocket on playgrounds across America.

  143. 143Thomas von der Trave on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:49 pm:

    Ooh. Anonymous anti-leftists now present demands to Obama Tsars. You might win, Zombo, but only because of the Noise Machine. Don’t kid yourself that you’re untouchable. A little ear-worm tells me that your vaunted anonymity is about to disappear.

    Let us have a look at you and your life, Zombie, and maybe then people will rightly quake before your awesome power.

    Till then, revel in the adulation of ex-lizards. LOL

  144. 144Dirk Diggler on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:49 pm:

    Throbert McGee,

    Early this past weekend, Zombie approached me by email and asked me to critique and vet this story, because we’d known each other for years as fellow posters on LGF, where for a long time I was pretty much the only openly homosexual “lizard.”

    You’re gay? I’m floored by this revelation.

  145. 145Thomas von der Trave on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:55 pm:

    Dirk Diggler: Throbert McGee,You’re gay? I’m floored by this revelation.

    Figures.

  146. 146Dirk Diggler on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:59 pm:

    Figures.

    My comment was meant to be sarcastic, dumbass.

  147. 147stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:01 am:

    What Jennings fails to realize is the greater a taboo is placed on a word, the more likely kids will use it and mis-use it. The whole point behind using swear words and xenophobia-based slurs is to freak out and upset the grownups, and to feel like a rebel. If “fag” and “gay” and placed on the official list of Terms Which Are Forbidden to Speak, you can rest assured their usage will skyrocket on playgrounds across America.

    And that would really suck.

  148. 148Thomas von der Trave on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:02 am:

    Yes, and to avoid misunderstanding (or misunderestimating), I’m saying if you want to be a playa and force people to apologize or resign, we damn well need to know who the fuck you are in real life. Your days of skulking around with a camera and pleading for anonymity because Big Scrotum Dude might come and pee on your rug are about to end, Zombo. Don’t thank me, chalk it up to your megalomania.

    Realwest, you’re a tool.

  149. 149Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:42 am:

    “Cue the melodramatic silent film music….”

    143Thomas von der Trave on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:49 pm:

    Ooh. Anonymous anti-leftists now present demands to Obama Tsars. You might win, Zombo, but only because of the Noise Machine. Don’t kid yourself that you’re untouchable. A little ear-worm tells me that your vaunted anonymity is about to disappear.

    Let us have a look at you and your life, Zombie, and maybe then people will rightly quake before your awesome power.

    Till then, revel in the adulation of ex-lizards. LOL

    Da-da-dum……

    Yes, and to avoid misunderstanding (or misunderestimating), I’m saying if you want to be a playa and force people to apologize or resign, we damn well need to know who the fuck you are in real life. Your days of skulking around with a camera and pleading for anonymity because Big Scrotum Dude might come and pee on your rug are about to end, Zombo. Don’t thank me, chalk it up to your megalomania.

    Have you ever considered a career in silent films? They’re looking for good villains. You know, the kind that issue sniveling threats, deliver ominous warnings, and steal candy from babies?

    If so, here’s my card:

    ~ACME CASTING~
    1700 Sunset Blvd.
    Hollywood

  150. 150Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:54 am:

    Great expose, Zombie. Your work is invaluable.

    Don’t let the little earworms get you down, or the chitterchatter from a certain blog whose owner is furiously poking holes in his sinking cyber-ship.

  151. 151Mad Mullah on Oct 7, 2009 at 1:22 am:

    Thomas von der Trave also posts at kejda.net.

    The first comment in this thread is by von der Trave and medurea has the second comment.

    http://www.kejda.net/2009/03/02/albanian-grade-school-photos-1993-1996/

  152. 152Bordm on Oct 7, 2009 at 1:24 am:

    From spending a few minutes on google, Thomas von der Trave is most likely Michael P. Hussey the scumbag husband of the skank Kejda Gjermani

  153. 153Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 1:36 am:

    On the other hand, there is direct evidence that Thomas von der Trave is a name used by Cato the Elder. The link below leads to a post from 2006, posted by Thomas von der Trave, the final paragraph of which begins:

    Permit me to introduce myself: I am Cato the Elder.

    Check it out. That’s a classy bunch over there.

  154. 154Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 1:37 am:

    Thomas von der Trave is Cato the Elder from LGF, straight up: http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2006/06/can-we-live-with-islam.html

  155. 155Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 1:44 am:

    Cato the Elder Wed, Oct 7, 2009 12:39:43am replyquote

    * 0
    * down
    * up
    * report

    Just a little thing…there are rumors whistling around…something about an undead accuser…an anony-mouse…a photog-phantom…a supremely self-righteous soi-disant brain-eating hater…a piggybacking poseur…an ideologue’s wet dream of a blogger…

    …just hints…little whispers…as it were in-dick-a-shuns…

    …that the real ID may soon appear.

    Stay tuned. (You really are a sick man Cato)

  156. 156Formercorpsman on Oct 7, 2009 at 3:25 am:

    Thomas von der Trave: Yes, and to avoid misunderstanding (or misunderestimating), I’m saying if you want to be a playa and force people to apologize or resign, we damn well need to know who the fuck you are in real life. Your days of skulking around with a camera and pleading for anonymity because Big Scrotum Dude might come and pee on your rug are about to end, Zombo. Don’t thank me, chalk it up to your megalomania.
    Realwest, you’re a tool.

    megalomania, heh.

  157. 157Formercorpsman on Oct 7, 2009 at 3:29 am:

    Dirk Diggler:
    My comment was meant to be sarcastic, dumbass.

    You know, that we know, that you know, homina, homina, homina..

  158. 158Pablo on Oct 7, 2009 at 3:31 am:

    Have you ever considered a career in silent films? They’re looking for good villains. You know, the kind that issue sniveling threats, deliver ominous warnings, and steal candy from babies?

    Heh.

    Did you wave your cane at Zombie, Cato? That’s very, very intimidating. For reals, ask your shrink.

  159. 159Roscoe on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:34 am:

    Wow Zombie………you really brought out the crazies this time, didn’t ya?

  160. 160Starless on Oct 7, 2009 at 5:55 am:

    Now, hang on, why does everyone seem to have a problem with the North American Marlon Brando Look Alikes?

  161. 161Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 7:27 am:

    Cato, you are the malevolent force that people lock their doors against at night. A manifestation of evil-as real as it gets. You are a creep and a terrorist. A minion in the worst possible connotation of that word. As you like to say, “How does it feel?”

  162. 162Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:07 am:

  163. 163Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:15 am:

    Thomas von der Trave, Magister Ludi…. who dwells in the imaginary province of Castilia, an intellectual, elitist community, dedicated to mathematics and music.

    In 1931 Hesse married his third wife, Ninon Dolbin, and began in the same year work on his masterpiece Das Glasperlenpiel, which was published in 1943. The setting is in the future in the imaginary province of Castilia, an intellectual, elitist community, dedicated to mathematics and music. Knecht (‘servant’) is chosen by the Old Music Master as a suitable aspirant to the Order. He goes to the city of Waldzell to study, and there he catches the attention of the Magister Ludi, Thomas von der Trave (an allusion to Hesse’s rival Thomas Mann). He is the Master of the Games, a system by which wisdom is communicated. Knecht dedicates himself to the Game, and on the death of Thomas, he is elected Magister Ludi. After a decade in his office Knecht tries to leave to start a life devoted to realizing human rights, but accidentally drowns in a mountain lake. In 1942 Hesse sent the manuscript to Berlin for publication. It was not accepted by the Nazis and the work appeared in Zurich, Switzerland.

    Observing von der Trave’s comments, his ‘system of wisdom” has been replaced by by paranoid rantings due to symptoms of earworm infestation.

  164. 164Ed Mahmoud on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:24 am:

    von der Trave, per my sources, is none other than Kejda Ghermani, aka LGF’s Medaura.

    Supporter of the Salafist jihad in Europe.

    Chuckles the Dancing clown has a history of outing supposed enemies. Of course, it is almost humorous that Chuckles’ “minion” Irish Rose visited here to stir up trouble just to get Zombie on the banned list. Zombie wasn’t an enemy, even after Chuckles called him a liar, over the Van Jones truther thing.

    Anyway, if Chuckles outs Zombie, then the undercover sleuthing is done, but I’ll support Zombie in his or her new career as a challneger to Pete Stark for the US House. Or as the one sane member of the Berkeley City Council.

    I must be thinking of another gay Democrat that dumped his wife and came out of the closet, because I can’t find evidence that Barney Frank was ever married. I did find evidence that his father and uncle were apparently “mobbed up” back in New Jersey, so corruption is nothing new to him, but he apparently never married a woman. Mea culpa

    I have been drunk in Alameda County, and feel a connection.

  165. 165Lincolntf on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:28 am:

    Watching the attacks and threats of “outing” directed at Zombie, it is plain that the Obamapologists are terrified that Jennings will not take his/her advice and toss Hay under the bus. And if Obama is going to stand by KJ then Zombie’s story will have to be discredited somehow. Since it’s a recording of facts it can’t be descredited, so instead Zombie must be “destroyed” as a blogger.

    The hatred and bitterness that have been driving the Left for years, in action. Predictable as the sunrise.

  166. 166Ed Mahmoud on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:29 am:

    You need a score card to keep all the nutty sycophants from LGF straight.

    I understand that every comment Rayra ever made, back when he and Chuckles the Dancing Clown were on friendly terms, has been deleted. I guess so people won’t know that Rayra isn’t the boogieman Chuckles paints him to be.

    Quite the MiniTru chuckles is runnning.

  167. 167Ed Mahmoud on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:35 am:

    My gut feeling, Chuckles sudden friendship wioth Markos “F*ck Em” Zuniga, his banning of Christians and anti-jihadists, his support for Obama’s Marxist Medicine, unreasonable lengths to defend Troofer Van Jones, is that Chuckles has long been bi-curious, which could be the reason for his divorce, wherein he got cleaned out, havong only an old Geo Metro and the clothes on his back. And when the smooth hunky Barack Obama came along, Chuckles had one of those Chrissy Matthews moments, a thrill ran up his thigh, and he dreams of the day he can play Barry’s sex slave.

    Just an educated guess, can’t be confirmed.

    But that can’t happen Chuck, stop pining, take a shower, dress up, comb your hair, and drive over to West Hollywood and see if you can meet a man your own age, who’ll respect you for you, having played bass with Al Jarreau two decades ago and helping write some of the code for “Pong” at Atari.

  168. 168pat on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:43 am:

    Cato’s inelegance is almost drowned out by the fiddles of LGF.

  169. 169Ringo the Gringo on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:51 am:

    Ed Mahmoud,

    Let it go, Ed.

    If you want to insult Charles, there is a website set up just for that….why don’t you take it there?

  170. 170Ed Mahmoud on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:04 am:

    I insult Chuckles plenty at the 2.0 stalker site. Well, I used to, then LGF and their merry band of mental midgets don’t do anything too insane, like Kilgore’s “n*gger” poo flinging at Hot Air, and I lose interest and post nothing about Charles for days, even weeks. Then the madness begins anew.

    This site had nothing to do with Chuckles until he started sending flunkies to take dumps here.

    Mocking the one great and pwerful Oz is big sport all over the internet, if you haven’t been by Ace or Jawa or Hot Air, ever since his meltdown began.

    In a moment of rare generosity, the thing for Chuck to do is let LGF go dark for a few weeks, and take a few week in Cabo or Jamaica and just sit on the beach and reflect about what has happened to his site, perhaps once the most important anti-idiotarian site on the internet. The way he treated Zombie is frankly disgusting. Maybe he just needs a vacation. Running one web site alone for a decade, can’t be good.

    Michelle Malkin will take a few days off from time to time and turn the site over to one or two guest bloggers, He doesn’t even have to do that, just let the site go dark for a week or two.

  171. 171Dirk Diggler on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:07 am:

    Ed,

    I must be thinking of another gay Democrat that dumped his wife and came out of the closet, because I can’t find evidence that Barney Frank was ever married.

    You’re thinking of Gerry Studds (D – Massachusetts). Studds screwed a 17 year old Congressional page.

  172. 172stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:16 am:

    Dirk Diggler: Ed,You’re thinking of Gerry Studds (D – Massachusetts). Studds screwed a 17 year old Congressional page.

    Have all of you forgotten Michael Huffington? We should have known he was gay when he married Arianna Huffington… his coming out was anti-climactic, in more ways than one.

  173. 173Gyvon on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:21 am:

    Starless: Now, hang on, why does everyone seem to have a problem with the North American Marlon Brando Look Alikes?

    They made zombie an offer he couldn’t refuse. He still refused it.

  174. 174Ringo the Gringo on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:34 am:

    Ed Mahmoud,

    I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but zombie’s lack of comment on the subject indicates to me a desire for this blog to not become an LGF battleground. Let them come here and take their dumps, it only makes them look bad. But by accusing Charles (or anyone) of being gay as a way of insulting them only succeeds in making yourself look juvenile, and dragging the comments section here down into the mud.

    That’s all I have to say on the subject.

  175. 175Troy on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:34 am:

    Thomas von der Trave is the odious Cato the elder on a mission form his lunatic master Chaz F’n Johnson.

    Zombie you are the best and we’ve got your back.

  176. 176Ellie in T.O. on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:40 am:

    Here’s a reason why Americans should be concerned about Jennings. While he is not a member of NAMBLA and there is no evidence he supports them in any way, the fact remains he admires an activist who was apparently one of their leading lights. And Jennings is now the US Safe School Czar. Is it possible that he might use his position and influence to promote a school curriculum in which Hay is extolled as a figure to be admired and emulated, like Rosa Parks? Americans have a right to know what Hay really stood for, and parents should have a right to reject him as a role model for their children.

    Bill Ayers is already out there “educating” the young. Enough already.

  177. 177Troy on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:46 am:

    Cato I hope somebody destroys that ugly rabid dog of yours and shoves that cane so far up your ass it turns you into a popsicle.

  178. 178loppyd on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:08 am:

    First – another excellent piece of reporting, zombie.

    I find it amusing that Cato takes umbrage at people assigning guilt by association (and praise in this case) to Jennings when he spends his days and nights at a place where it is common practice to find links between “far right extremists” and neo-nazis to prove their point.

  179. 179tfc3rid on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:15 am:

    Excellent digging Zombie! Great work as always!

  180. 180HarryV on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:16 am:

    To all you losers from LGF who come here to drop turds on Zombie’s doorstep. None of you will ever be fit to shine Zombie’s shoes. And be very careful with that talk of ‘outing’ Zombie–if you want to go down that you are not going to like the blowback.

  181. 181loppyd on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:22 am:

    Unfortunately, we in the Boston area know all too well what NAMBLA is.

    Remember the story of Jeffrey Curley?

    This innocent 10 year-old boy was raped and murdered by a NAMBLA member and his pervert buddy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KtaNRfvwM0&feature=youtube_gdata

  182. 182Lincolntf on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:46 am:

    1loppyd on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:22 am:

    I thought of that poor kid the moment I heard NAMBLA in the context of this most recent “Czar eruption”.
    I was living in MA at the time and remember full well the role that NAMBLA played in that horror.
    Anyone with any doubts about any association with NAMBLA (Obama, I’m talking to you) should take a look at the case.

  183. 183stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:50 am:

    zombie: PRECISELY!I quote your full comment so that everyone reads it again. Spot-on observation.

    Molte grazie, zombie!

  184. 184Cato the Elder on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:53 am:

    Yep. Cato here. Not Kejda, though I expect she’s laughing her ass off at the tools who think I’m her husband. I figured the smart ones would figure out Thomas von der Trave. But do you get the joke? I doubt it.

    “Zombie” knows my real name, too, and more than that. And I wouldn’t put it past himerit to “out” me. It’s up to you, oh great anonymous citizen journalist. I can no more out you – I have no more idea who you really are – than I do about the origin of the universe or the date and time of the final judgment. But I think once you cross from documenting teh crazee at demos with undercover photos to demanding that people kiss your anonymous ass or lose their jobs, you’ve crossed a line. I hope your real identity comes out real soon and we can all see a conversation between you and those you defame. Kejda is out there in the real world calling out Stacy McCain and you hide behind your fear of kidz wearing Che shirts.

    I’m not on a mission from anybody. A former admirer who thinks you’ve become a disgusting un-American unnamed Denunziant worthy of the Stasi. But you’re obviously proud of that, so I’ll just go on hoping you lose your incognito to someone with a badge.

    Keep it “real”, Zomb.

    P.S. Had to post this through a proxy because the brave “Zombie” has blocked my IP.

  185. 185Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:54 am:

    Great work Zombie!

    Because of your investigative report on this Hay guy, I did a little more research and guess what else I found? He was involved with the Communist party…

    I also did a research on Margarida Joder, who is one of Obama’s leader for pushing universal health care. She is a Communist activist according to her past history.

    I did further research on the Midwest Academy, Ms Booth and Mr Max…and all these “Progressives”….

    It is quite disturbing.

    The media and Clinton talks about the Right Wing Conspiracy. How come nobody else talks about the Left Wing Conspiracy? Like a Marxist takeover of USA?

    The odd thing is, the SEIU is the second largest union and they represent most government employees.

  186. 186stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:56 am:

    Thomas von der Trave: Yes, and to avoid misunderstanding (or misunderestimating), I’m saying if you want to be a playa and force people to apologize or resign, we damn well need to know who the fuck you are in real life. Your days of skulking around with a camera and pleading for anonymity because Big Scrotum Dude might come and pee on your rug are about to end, Zombo. Don’t thank me, chalk it up to your megalomania.

    Fascinating: apparently it’s fine to be an anonymous figure when forcing other anonymous figures to uncloak.

    Put another way, if “Thomas van der Trave” wants to force zombie to modify his/her behavior, we damn well need to know who the f*ck he is in real life. Because, you know, for him to campaign anonymously for another blogger’s unmasking would be — is hypocritical the word? — no, more like pretzel logic so twisted that ol’ Tom must be doing an eyeball inspection of his own duodenum at this point.

  187. 187Ed Mahmoud on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:59 am:

    But I think once you cross from documenting teh crazee at demos with undercover photos to demanding that people kiss your anonymous ass or lose their jobs, you’ve crossed a line.

    Um, advising a man who heaped praise on one of the founders of NAMBLA retract said praise isn’t exactly the same as firing them.

    No, really.

    Unless you’re saying Zombie’s real identity is President Obama,

  188. 188Lincolntf on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:10 am:

    “Unless you’re saying Zombie’s real identity is President Obama,…”

    We are all Obama. There is no Other. Only Obama.

  189. 189Ringo the Gringo on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:13 am:

    Cato,

    “But do you get the joke? I doubt it.”…

    Look at me!..My jokes are so sophisticated that nobody gets them.

    You’re fucking pathetic.

  190. 190Troy on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:15 am:

    Cato the Elder (Thomas Von der Trave)

    You misogynist prick – Do you masturbate to photos of Sarah Palin?

  191. 191RegimeChangeBeginsAtHome on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:18 am:

    I think Zombie needs to post Cato’s IP Address from the first post – I’m thinking he doesn’t need to be anonymous any longer too.

  192. 192Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:30 am:

    I’m not on a mission from anybody. A former admirer who thinks you’ve become a disgusting un-American unnamed Denunziant worthy of the Stasi. But you’re obviously proud of that, so I’ll just go on hoping you lose your incognito to someone with a badge.

    “un-American unnamed Denumziant”, “worthy of the Stasi”, “lose your incognito to someone with a badge”

    Brother.

    And what badge would that be, the Keystone Progressive Cops?

    Honestly, Cato, if you did post this, this is beyond the pale. If you didn’t, then whoever posted under Cato’s nic, then your behavior is malicious at several different low levels.

    As for “Thomas van der Trave” and “Cato the Elder” …. I await your call at ACME CASTING AGENCY, have several “Snidely Whiplash” and Erich von Stroheim gigs already lined up.

  193. 193Dirk Diggler on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:48 am:

    LGF resembles Jonestown more and more with each passing day. When Charles starts posting about “Living like no other people have lived” and “Laying their burdens down” on a sooper sekrit thread we’ll know they’re about to start chugging the Flavor-Aid.

    Ringo is right though. We should avoid talking about them at all costs. And I pledge to starting now.

  194. 194Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:54 am:

    Incognito: Great work Zombie! Because of your investigative report on this Hay guy, I did a little more research and guess what else I found? He was involved with the Communist party…I also did a research on Margarida Joder, who is one of Obama’s leader for pushing universal health care. She is a Communist activist according to her past history. I did further research on the Midwest Academy, Ms Booth and Mr Max…and all these “Progressives”….It is quite disturbing.The media and Clinton talks about the Right Wing Conspiracy. How come nobody else talks about the Left Wing Conspiracy? Like a Marxist takeover of USA? The odd thing is, the SEIU is the second largest union and they represent most government employees.

    In Cognito?

  195. 195Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:56 am:

    Zombie,

    A quick note on “unmasking” anonymous bloggers for “veracity’s sake”.

    Within AP articles you usually find “according to a source”, or “sources claim”, etc., ect.. As long as MSM news sources rely on anonymous sources, bloggers should be afforded the same leeway, and should be regarded in the same vein as “sources”.

    This is no way mitigates an anonymous blogger’s responsibility to report facts and evidence that are verifiable. Anonymous posters can be sued for slander and libel.

    In short, unless the same “standards” are applied to the MSM using anonymous sources, anonymous bloggers shouldn’t be required to identify themselves as “proof” their documentation and evidence is “valid” and therefore, worth further investigation. If anonymous bloggers are forced to reveal their identity in order to publish a story, the msm should be required to identify each and every anonymous source cited in an article.

  196. 196Pvt Bin Jammin on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:56 am:

    Thank you Zombie for yet another good essay. I appreciate your hard work.

    Jennings needs to go. There is no way he could not have known about the NAMBLA connection to Mr. Hay.

  197. 197anti_left on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:59 am:

    well, I agree with both Ed and Ringo

    maybe this site should
    stay above the fray
    then again, CJ sent, or they came thinking it was tastier than rimming him dirty, to curry favor
    and started dumping LGF conspiracy lunacy/defense here
    I guess the obsevation about LGF being a second grade playground is right
    but get real LGF defenders, it’s not like sports where you cheer for a corporation (I mean team)
    or politics, where you cheer for one corrupt group over another

    but posters talking about someone with a badge coming after anyone is, well – Nazi-ish
    though did Nazi’s wear badges or just Swastikas?

  198. 198EL Rider on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:59 am:

    Another great piece. Thanks for the work you do, even if it seems to tee off some people from lgf.

  199. 199Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:07 pm:

    Dirk Diggler: LGF resembles Jonestown more and more with each passing day. When Charles starts posting about “Living like no other people have lived” and “Laying their burdens down” on a sooper sekrit thread we’ll know they’re about to start chugging the Flavor-Aid. Ringo is right though. We should avoid talking about them at all costs. And I pledge to starting now.

    Dirk, I agree. My involvement just the other day was born totally out of anger, seeing the double standard employed. I have been banned for a little while now, but so is life. I make no claims of having any close acquaintance with Zombie, but have had discussions elsewhere, another place, another time. If memory serves me, we might have even had drawn different conclusions on different issues, but I have respect for the effort, and body of work attributed.

    I have a few places I read, this is one of them. I comment at even fewer, one really. Nonetheless, I was fine letting the past be the past. Obviously, others are not.

    Thus, Zombie, I apologize if my posts caused any problems for you. It was not my intent. Thank you for your hard work.

  200. 200Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:08 pm:

    Cato the Elder…

    I had been reading articles from The Cato Institute and I have to say you are quite the opposite from what The Cato Institute stands for!

  201. 201Formercorpsman on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:08 pm:

    Anonymous: In Cognito?

    Anonymous: Dirk, I agree. My involvement just the other day was born totally out of anger, seeing the double standard employed. I have been banned for a little while now, but so is life. I make no claims of having any close acquaintance with Zombie, but have had discussions elsewhere, another place, another time. If memory serves me, we might have even had drawn different conclusions on different issues, but I have respect for the effort, and body of work attributed.I have a few places I read, this is one of them. I comment at even fewer, one really. Nonetheless, I was fine letting the past be the past. Obviously, others are not.Thus, Zombie, I apologize if my posts caused any problems for you. It was not my intent. Thank you for your hard work.

    Formercorpsman.

  202. 202Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:09 pm:

    Cato fancies himself a Magister Ludi.
    (“The Glass Bead Game, H. Hesse)

  203. 203Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:09 pm:

    Prvt Bin Jammin! Wow so nice to see you here! It is almost like the old days!

  204. 204Rose on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:09 pm:

    zombie:
    PRECISELY!I quote your full comment so that everyone reads it again. Spot-on observation.

    Now his actions in the more recent case make more sense – he wasn’t going to out the 15(maybe 16) year old because he supported and approved of that relationship. He didn’t fulfill his duties as a mandatory reporter because he had his own agenda.

    The Orwellian nature of calling someone like this a “Safe Schools” Czar is so repulsive I have lost my ability to express it. People should be screaming from the rooftops.

    But his is what anyone who looked at Obama’s record, his only real record with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge could see coming. Obama is an activist’s wet dream come true and quickly showing himself to be our worst nightmare.

  205. 205Just dropping in on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:09 pm:

    Yes, zombie is anonymous. But zombie also meticulously *documents* his/her work. It’s puzzling to me that some can’t quite grasp that.

  206. 206Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:11 pm:

    Cato the Elder:
    ‘Liber homo es nimium’, dicis mihi, Catoe, semper.
    In te qui dicit, Catoe, liber homo est?

  207. 207Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:14 pm:

    I agree Rose…

    And someone’s accusation that I was name calling Margarida Jorge a communist made me do a search on her and communism and that sent to me lots of trails about SEIU, and their link to MoveON.org and George Soros…

    I was like…wow….

    Talk about a Left Wing Conspiracy.

    I am glad that Zombie is helping to expose part of that.

  208. 208Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:18 pm:

    Cato:
    Bene qui latuit, bene vixit

  209. 209Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:20 pm:

    Rose,

    The puter at the office will not let me in the parachat…so I wanted to let you know that.

    Please send everyone a greeting for me!

    Ciao!

  210. 210Ed Mahmoud on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:22 pm:

    Cato’s knowledge of seventy year old German literature puts us poor unsophisticated proles to shame.

    I bow at your wit and wisdom.

    Not.

  211. 211Anonymous on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:22 pm:

    Rose:

    The Orwellian nature of calling someone like this a “Safe Schools” Czar is so repulsive I have lost my ability to express it. People should be screaming from the rooftops.

    Jennings is the key, Rose. He has to step forward and answer the questions as to whether he did call Hay an inspiration in a speech in 1997 and whether, at the time, he was aware of Hay’s involvement with NAMBLA.

    As for politics, there are those who claim this issue is a prime example of right-wing smear tactics. Perhaps. Except Jennings isn’t Obama’s “car” Czar or a Czar whose duties don’t involve children. The cold, hard fact remains that Jennings is the Safe Schools Czar. Any issue involving NAMBLA must be addressed. The public deserves answers to the very valid questions Zombie has outline above.

  212. 212Pvt Bin Jammin on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:25 pm:

    Incognito, Nice to see you too as well as some of the others here.

    I’ve been following the zomblog for quite awhile now, just don’t post as much as I should.

  213. 213Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:26 pm:

    Cato
    Caro putridas es!

  214. 214Formercorpsman on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:29 pm:

    Is it Cognito?

    Or someone using Incognito?

  215. 215Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:30 pm:

    As for politics, there are those who claim this issue is a prime example of right-wing smear tactics. Perhaps. Except Jennings isn’t Obama’s “car” Czar or a Czar whose duties don’t involve children. The cold, hard fact remains that Jennings is the Safe Schools Czar. Any issue involving NAMBLA must be addressed. The public deserves answers to the very valid questions Zombie has outline above.

    Anonymous, I agree. I don’t think it is a right wing smear, especially coming from ZOMBIE…Zombie is not a right winger anyway. Zombie is a true anti idiotarian.

  216. 216Rose on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:30 pm:

    Anonymous: Any issue involving NAMBLA must be addressed. The public deserves answers to thevery valid questions Zombie has outline above.

    ABSOLUTELY right!!!! This should offend leftwing/Dems as much as right wing/Rep – it’s wrong, and it has to be stopped. (I know nothing this perverted offends Progressives).

  217. 217Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:32 pm:

    Former Corpsman,

    Someone at the Table 9 said I was too lucid to be Cognito.

    So there is your answer.

  218. 218Formercorpsman on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:41 pm:

    Incognito: Former Corpsman,Someone at the Table 9 said I was too lucid to be Cognito. So there is your answer.

    Ok, I got ya. lol.

  219. 219Formercorpsman on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:43 pm:

    Formercorpsman: Ok, I got ya. lol.

    I have no idea what table 9 is, but I’ll take your word for it.

  220. 220Ed Mahmoud on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:47 pm:

    ό Κατο φαγειν τον σκατον

  221. 221stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 1:35 pm:

    Just dropping in: Yes, zombie is anonymous. But zombie also meticulously *documents* his/her work. It’s puzzling to me that some can’t quite grasp that.

    And was it not Charles Johnson, the LunGFish himself, who pronounced that facts are independent of their source?

    I believe it was:

    622 Charles
    Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:44:58pm replyquote
    2
    down
    up
    favorite
    report
    re: #615 Bill Jefferson

    Charles, I noticed you linked to MediaMatters. They are why the phrase “consider the source” exists.

    And comments like that are why the phrase “shoot the messenger, ignore the message” exists.

    The audio clip is an unedited, undisputed clip from Rush Limbaugh’s radio show. Why does it matter who turned on the recorder?

  222. 222stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 1:38 pm:

    Dear zombie,

    When I asked a couple of threads ago that you post something new for us to talk about, I had no idea you would take the discussion up to a whole ‘nother level. It’s been more fun than I could have imagined!

    Thanks,

    stuiec

  223. 223Throbert McGee on Oct 7, 2009 at 2:19 pm:

    [Cato,] You misogynist prick – Do you masturbate to photos of Sarah Palin?

    One thing’s for sure — Todd Palin, or maybe Levi Johnston, would be more to Cato’s liking as wank-fodder. Which is not a closely-guarded secret, since Cato has occasionally disclosed on LGF that he’s gay. But Cato has also mentioned being closeted in real life, which puts an interesting spin on Cato’s gleeful fantasizing about Zombie being outed (as quoted in #155, above).

  224. 224Traveling Thomas on Oct 7, 2009 at 2:46 pm:

    Dear darling Throbert: I am not gay, and if I were, I would not be closeted. A certain poster at LGF decided I was a closeted queen and I made a joke out of it. You know, like, poking fun at the fellow who decided he could upset me by calling me “Nancy”?

    I know you don’t get difficult concepts like that, so I figured I’d better explain it to you.

  225. 225Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 2:47 pm:

    I have no idea what table 9 is, but I’ll take your word for it.

    It is Rose’s chatroom. It is now frequented by highly “evolved” Lizards…or former Lizards, that is. It is quite popular and I am quite amazed.

  226. 226Throbert McGee on Oct 7, 2009 at 2:52 pm:

    zombie:
    Yes, really. Jennings has mentioned many times his hyperventilating concern about kids calling each other “fag” [...] But what’s really at the very top of Jennings’ agenda is the disturbing trend among pre-teens and tweener girls of using “gay” as a sort of general put-down adjective, or more accurately a testing-out-my-newly-found-sarcasm tool, e.g. “This math test is so gay, Kaitlin.” “Like, totally. I didn’t even study.”

    I’m not sure if it’s correct to describe this math test is so gay as a “trend” — that was already well-established usage when I was in high school, and I just recently attended my 20-year reunion!

    But anyway, it is totally gay for Jennings to try and deal with the problem of homophobic bullying by constantly nagging kids not to say “fag” or “that’s gay!” The effective solution to bullying is to help young homos and other bully-magnets to be (a) not such inviting targets, so that they get bullied less often; and (b) thicker skinned, so that when they DO get picked on, they understand that it’s not that big a deal. There are a bunch of ways to accomplish both of these, and frankly, groups like Jenning’s GLSEN are somewhat low on the list of “most effective”. In some ways, the very need for a group like GLSEN is a bit less obvious today than it was just 20 years ago. When I was in high school, it still made national news when some kid came out at age 16 and then wanted to bring his boyfriend to the prom. Nowadays, kids coming out in high school is getting too stale for Oprah, and on top of that, it seems to be the rule that every single 12-people-in-one-house reality show must have at least one openly gay cast member, and of course we now have the Web and the transformation of social-networking that can vastly, VASTLY reduce the sense of isolation for a gay teen at a small high school in a cow town.

    “I always thought I was the only high-school guy in the world who thought other guys were sexy” used to be a standard theme in every single gay autobiography ever written, and I can guarantee you that Jennings (born in 1963) is still looking at the world through a lens that was shaped by the circumstances of having been a gay teenager in the 1970s.

  227. 227Throbert McGee on Oct 7, 2009 at 3:04 pm:

    Traveling Thomas: Dear darling Throbert: I am not gay

    What a friend I have in Jesus!

  228. 228stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 3:11 pm:

    Throbert McGee: “I always thought I was the only high-school guy in the world who thought other guys were sexy” used to be a standard theme in every single gay autobiography ever written, and I can guarantee you that Jennings (born in 1963) is still looking at the world through a lens that was shaped by the circumstances of having been a gay teenager in the 1970s.

    I wonder if Jennings, who was still in the closet in the early 1980s (by his self-description), lost many friends to AIDS. I can’t imagine that he would have been so timid in dealing with the student who revealed his Boston bus-stop pickup if he had — he’d have been more likely to see the incident as serious and dangerous.

  229. 229CattusMagnus on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:05 pm:

    #228 Stueic,

    I wonder if Jennings, who was still in the closet in the early 1980s (by his self-description), lost many friends to AIDS. I can’t imagine that he would have been so timid in dealing with the student who revealed his Boston bus-stop pickup if he had — he’d have been more likely to see the incident as serious and dangerous.

    I could be wrong, but I thought that Jennings did have a friend that died of AIDS. So that’s the reason why he told that 15/16 year-old kid to wear a condom. A problem that people (including myself) have with Jennings is that he didn’t seem too concerned that this child was having sex with an adult. Jennings identified sex without a condom as dangerous behavior, but he did not identify a child having sex with an adult as dangerous behavior.

  230. 230Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:17 pm:

    I’m not sure if it’s correct to describe this math test is so gay as a “trend” — that was already well-established usage when I was in high school, and I just recently attended my 20-year reunion!

    Throbert McGee, we need to remember that the word ‘gay’ meant something different even a generation or two ago. Used to mean happy, joyful, springlike…and all that and nothing to do with homosexuality. And of course the homosexual community appropriated the world ‘gay’ as a name for themselves and now they do not like it being abused in everyday language…

  231. 231stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:17 pm:

    CattusMagnus: #228 Stueic,I could be wrong, but I thought that Jennings did have a friend that died of AIDS. So that’s the reason why he told that 15/16 year-old kid to wear a condom. A problem that people (including myself) have with Jennings is that he didn’t seem too concerned that this child was having sex with an adult. Jennings identified sex without a condom as dangerous behavior, but he did not identify a child having sex with an adult as dangerous behavior.

    With an adult stranger. Whom he met in a public restroom. Who could have beaten, raped or killed the kid outright.

    Picking up dates in bars is dangerous enough, but at least there you tend to have witnesses. Picking up anonymous dates in restrooms is on a par with Russian roulette. (Apart from being a public nuisance, as George Michael learned to his chagrin.)

    And really, beyond the issue of the kid’s safety, was that Jennings’s A-game in helping a teenager come to terms with his emerging sexual identity — “I hope you used a condom”?

  232. 232stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:20 pm:

    Incognito: Throbert McGee, we need to remember that the word ‘gay’ meant something different even a generation or two ago. Used to mean happy, joyful, springlike…and all that and nothing to do with homosexuality. And of course the homosexual community appropriated the world ‘gay’ as a name for themselves and now they do not like it being abused in everyday language…

    I wonder whether this had anything to do with the shift in meaning.

  233. 233Incognito on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:29 pm:

    I could be wrong, but I thought that Jennings did have a friend that died of AIDS. So that’s the reason why he told that 15/16 year-old kid to wear a condom. A problem that people (including myself) have with Jennings is that he didn’t seem too concerned that this child was having sex with an adult. Jennings identified sex without a condom as dangerous behavior, but he did not identify a child having sex with an adult as dangerous behavior.

    Cattus Magnus, it could be revealing the attitude of the early day of homosexuality movement that intergenerational sex was acceptable and should be promoted. Thus it would explain why the founder of gay movement was also involved in NAMBLA. It is curious how NAMBLA is now not even mentioned anywhere in the media.

    I have done some research in that area and noted the interest in stories of intergenerational sex or coming out. It was usually with an older person by a younger person. One popular gay website has a section on stories between youngsters and older folks. The sad thing is that many gays do travel to Thailand and take advantage of young boys available over there. That is of course not restricted to gays, as there are heterosexual pedophiles.

  234. 234zombie on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:36 pm:

    stuiec: Dear zombie,When I asked a couple of threads ago that you post something new for us to talk about, I had no idea you would take the discussion up to a whole ‘nother level. It’s been more fun than I could have imagined! Thanks,stuiec

    I am to please. Your wish is my command.

    A czar here, a czar there — I’m just trying to spice up the conversation.

  235. 235CattusMagnus on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:56 pm:

    #231 Stuiec,
    I wasn’t aware that the kid was sexually involved with a random stranger, I though it was just some older guy. This makes the situation a thousand times worse! What a fucking creep Jennings is.

    #233 Incognito,
    You going to write a report on that? I’d love to read it.

    it could be revealing the attitude of the early day of homosexuality movement that intergenerational sex was acceptable and should be promoted.

    Yes. It’s what Hays seemed to believe and it sure looks as if Jennings believes it too.

    Yeah, and Thailand is a whole other ball of wax. Where’s the UN human rights commitee on that shit?

  236. 236Beth, just south of Berkeley and just east of San Francisco on Oct 7, 2009 at 4:58 pm:

    “Gay teens need to feel safe — not just from bullies their own age, but also from adult predators seeking to take advantage of them.”

    Thank you, Zombie, and God bless you! That’s a very caring statement in a very polarized debate.

    I’m also grateful for Ellie in T.O.’s

    And Jennings is now the US Safe School Czar. Is it possible that he might use his position and influence to promote a school curriculum in which Hay is extolled as a figure to be admired and emulated, like Rosa Parks?

    There’s gay and there’s postmodern long-march-through-the-institutions “queer” as deconstructionism’s cutting edge. Leftists will use “GLBT” rainbow types then cast them aside. “Your issues are important, and we’ll address them after we do the more important work of bringing on the socialist revolution.”

    After all, “universal” healthcare, as currently practiced or promoted, leaves out the needs of the “T” people in that grouping.

    We all deserve better than this.

  237. 237CattusMagnus on Oct 7, 2009 at 5:08 pm:

    #236 Beth, just south of Berkeley and just east of San Francisco

    Leftists will use “GLBT” rainbow types then cast them aside. “Your issues are important, and we’ll address them after we do the more important work of bringing on the socialist revolution.”

    You hit the nail on the head. Obama sure appreciated the support of the gay community during the election. They did a lot for him. What’s he done for them lately? Not repealing “don’t ask don’t tell” that’s for sure. And forget about gay marriage. Everything – race, sexually etc. – takes a backseat to the leftist agenda.

  238. 238stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 5:21 pm:

    CattusMagnus: I wasn’t aware that the kid was sexually involved with a random stranger, I though it was just some older guy. This makes the situation a thousand times worse! What a fucking creep Jennings is.

    Here’s something really curious. Does Kevin Jennings embellish to make things seem more dramatic than they really were? Or are other people frantically covering up for him?

    Jennings’s own words:

    And in my second job I wasn’t sure how I wanted to deal with that. And I was in my first month on the job and I had an advisee named Brewster. Brewster was missing a lot of classes; he was in the boarding school so I said to his teacher, his first period teacher, I said, ‘next time Brewster misses a class I want you to tell me that he’s missed that class and, uh, I will go find him.’ So I went and found Brewster one morning when she had called and he was asleep in his dorm room. And I said, “Brewster, what are you doing in there asleep?” And he said, “Well, I’m tired.” And I said, “Well we all are tired and we all got to school today.” And he said, “Well I was out late last night.” And I said, “What were you doing out late on a school night.” And he said, “Well, I was in Boston…” Boston was about 45 minutes from Concord. So I said, “What were you doing in Boston on a school night Brewster?” He got very quiet, and he finally looked at me and said, “Well I met someone in the bus station bathroom and I went home with him.” High school sophomore, 15 years old. That was the only way he knew how to meet gay people. I was a closeted gay teacher, 24 years old, didn’t know what to say. Knew I should say something quickly so I finally said, My best friend had just died of AIDS the week before. I looked at Brewster and said, “You know, I hope you knew to use a condom.” He said to me something I will never forget, He said “Why should I, my life isn’t worth saving anyway.”

    But here’s CNN quoting “Brewster”:

    Now that former student is speaking out for the first time and telling CNN he did not have sex with that man at all. He did not elaborate on what he told Jennings at the time. Jennings could not be reached for comment late Friday.

    In a statement obtained by CNN, the former student, who wanted to be called Brewster, wrote: “Since I was of legal consent at the time, the 15-minute conversation I had with Mr. Jennings 21 years ago is of nobody’s concern but his and mine. However, since the Republican noise machine is so concerned about my ‘well-being’ and that of America’s students, they’ll be relieved to know that I was not ‘inducted’ into homosexuality, assaulted, raped, or sold into sexual slavery.”

    The former student recounted what happened at the time and maintained there was no sexual contact.

    “In 1988, I had taken a bus home for the weekend, and on the return trip met someone who was also gay. The next day, I had a conversation with Mr. Jennings about it. I had no sexual contact with anybody at the time, though I was entirely legally free to do so. I was a 16-year-old going through something most of us have experienced: adolescence.”

    Doesn’t sound like the same incident. Is it the same kid? Is the person who came forward to identify himself as “Brewster” the same kid that Jennings was speaking of?

  239. 239M on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:01 pm:

    Top story on Hannity now.

  240. 240zombie on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:09 pm:

    stuiec: Doesn’t sound like the same incident. Is it the same kid? Is the person who came forward to identify himself as “Brewster” the same kid that Jennings was speaking of?

    Somebody’s lying. Either Jennings lied repeatedly when recounting this incident in nearly every speech and book intro he’s ever written, or “Brewster” is lying now. If Jennings lied repeatedly, then he has lost all credibility. But I don’t think Jennings was lying. I think Brewster is lying. the very fact that he used the term “Republican noise machine” proves he’s just a partisan hack willing to say anything to get out of the situation.

    it seems, to my amazement, that Jennings really does plan to stand his ground and try to stay on as Safe Schools Czar. Well, so be it. He accepted my wager and raised me twice as much.

    Now for another round. And then we’ll see who has the best hand. It’s going to be quite a showdown. For Jennings’ sake, I hope he has a royal flush, because he’s gonna plotz when he sees what I Iay down on the table.

  241. 241zombie on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:11 pm:

    M: Top story on Hannity now.

    What is? The Jennings scandal in general, or my post specifically?

  242. 242Lookout on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:13 pm:

    Surprising post from Cato, he used to be intelligent, rational and provide substantiation for his opinions (even if a little prickly and sardonic). Apparently when skills are not adequately challenged in the cocoon they atrophy.

  243. 243stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:16 pm:

    zombie: Now for another round. And then we’ll see who has the best hand. It’s going to be quite a showdown. For Jennings’ sake, I hope he has a royal flush, because he’s gonna plotz when he sees what I Iay down on the table.

    Who’s a naughty zombie, then? You’re such a tease.

  244. 244M on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:18 pm:

    zombie:
    What is? The Jennings scandal in general, or my post specifically?

    Hannity led off with Jennings/NAMBLA. I then turned it off as my kids were in the room.

  245. 245Lookout on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:22 pm:

    Hmmm, there is definitely some shoot the messenger replies in the thread. The information Zombie posted is already in the public sphere and was on the way to becoming well known regardless of Zombie’s actions. Zombie’s post is an attempt to help the administration stop making these amateurish mistakes. It was free advice, and a far cry better than whatever they have been receiving. But instead of dealing with the emerging problem, they will likely sit tight on it until it erupts under their feet and knocks another person out of the administration, and makes them look extremist.

  246. 246Throbert McGee on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:42 pm:

    stuiec:
    I wonder whether this had anything to do with the shift in meaning [of the word "gay"].

    Heh! A million updin– er, rather, a tip of the hat to stuiec for pointing out that classic film clip!

    Incognito, I appreciate what you’re saying, but the change in meaning of the word “gay” has been much more complicated than you suggest — it’s certainly not as simple as “homosexuals appropriating the word.”

    Rather than reinvent the wheel, I’ll just point you to this well-written and thoroughly footnoted article about the history of “gay as in homosexual” at Wikipedia. In particular, note the 1857 British cartoon in which two female prostitutes meet on the street and one says to the other: “How long have you been gay?” — here, gay has absolutely nothing to do with any implications of lesbianism, but rather was mid-19th-century code for “hooker.”

    (And the article also discusses what Cary Grant may or may not have meant when he said “I just went gay all of a sudden!” in the 1938 clip that stuiec linked!)

  247. 247Chris on Oct 7, 2009 at 6:46 pm:

    Quoting Jennings talking about Hay: “He was, at times, a serious political embarrassment, as when he consistently advocated the inclusion of the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) in gay-pride parades.” Jennings was praising Hays early political activism and not his association with NAMBLA. Stop trying to scare people and get ALL the facts first before you smear someone.

  248. 248Dirk Diggler on Oct 7, 2009 at 7:00 pm:

    zombie,

    Yes, really. Jennings has mentioned many times his hyperventilating concern about kids calling each other “fag” [...] But what’s really at the very top of Jennings’ agenda is the disturbing trend among pre-teens and tweener girls of using “gay” as a sort of general put-down adjective, or more accurately a testing-out-my-newly-found-sarcasm tool, e.g. “This math test is so gay, Kaitlin.” “Like, totally. I didn’t even study.”

    Let’s hope Mr. Jennings never encounters an Englishman desperate for a “fag”. That might be an uncomfortable experience for them both.

  249. 249Roger on Oct 7, 2009 at 7:06 pm:

    125realwest

    Excellent post, realwest. It has a tremendous foundation.

  250. 250Annie Mouse on Oct 7, 2009 at 7:20 pm:

    Top story on Hannity now.

    and bottom story is Traveling Thomas the demented old fucker also called Cato the elder. You fokls can trace him on his 9,000,000th ranked amazon book. Not for me. All I know is that no human would have him. No healthy dog would have him. He prays on injured dogs who are desperate for a home. and these poor dogs deserve so much better

  251. 251stuiec on Oct 7, 2009 at 7:24 pm:

    Chris: Quoting Jennings talking about Hay: “He was, at times, a serious political embarrassment, as when he consistently advocated the inclusion of the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) in gay-pride parades.”Jennings was praising Hays early political activism and not his association with NAMBLA.Stop trying to scare people and get ALL the facts first before you smear someone.

    Quoting Jennings from what source?

  252. 252Annie Mouse on Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 pm:

    oh and Cato and Kejada and andrea and you assorted skanks from grand rapids, your act is tired. quit while you are ahead

    leave Zombie alone

  253. 253Throbert McGee on Oct 7, 2009 at 7:45 pm:

    Rose: Now [Jenning's] actions in the more recent case make more sense – he wasn’t going to out the 15(maybe 16) year old because he supported and approved of that relationship. He didn’t fulfill his duties as a mandatory reporter because he had his own agenda.

    Rose, please get a grip. Jennings himself was 24 at the time — in other words, not that far past adolescence himself, which means not that far past wanting to constantly rebel against adult authority and thinking grown-ups were stupid and lame. At the time, he didn’t have any more of an “agenda” than the 24-year-old straight guys who quite often give really lousy advice about girls and drinking to their younger brothers and cousins still in high school.

    On the other hand, what you can properly criticize Jennings for is that as a man who’s now in his mid-40s, he’s been telling and re-telling the “Brewster” story for years without having come to realize how HIDEOUSLY AND EMBARRASSINGLY INADEQUATE his advice to Brewster was.

  254. 254Pablo on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:24 pm:

    On the other hand, what you can properly criticize Jennings for is that as a man who’s now in his mid-40s, he’s been telling and re-telling the “Brewster” story for years without having come to realize how HIDEOUSLY AND EMBARRASSINGLY INADEQUATE his advice to Brewster was.

    Yep.

  255. 255Pablo on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:27 pm:

    Now for another round. And then we’ll see who has the best hand. It’s going to be quite a showdown. For Jennings’ sake, I hope he has a royal flush, because he’s gonna plotz when he sees what I Iay down on the table.

    Uh…uh…CREATIONIST!!! White supremacist too, no doubt.

  256. 256Bolero on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:28 pm:

    Stuiec, that was an interesting link you did on Cary Grant!

    Throbert McGee, I checked out your blog, it was interesting!

  257. 257Pablo on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:30 pm:

    I think Brewster is lying. the very fact that he used the term “Republican noise machine” proves he’s just a partisan hack willing to say anything to get out of the situation.

    We don’t know that Brewster is even Brewster, do we? An anonymous account, delivered through Media Matters…

    What, Media Matters saw his drivers license? Well, then….

  258. 258Bolero on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:34 pm:

    Throbert McGee: Incognito, I appreciate what you’re saying, but the change in meaning of the word “gay” has been much more complicated than you suggest — it’s certainly not as simple as “homosexuals appropriating the word.”

    I see! Thanks for explaining the complexity. So it was formerly used to mean “hooker”? Oh…that does have a deep implication…did that mean in the early days of hidden homosexuality that they had to use hookers so often, they might as well as use the word ‘gay’? I am going to read the Wikipedia entry you posted…

  259. 259Bolero on Oct 7, 2009 at 8:56 pm:

    zombie: Now for another round. And then we’ll see who has the best hand. It’s going to be quite a showdown. For Jennings’ sake, I hope he has a royal flush, because he’s gonna plotz when he sees what I Iay down on the table.

    Yeaaah for Zombie! We rooting for ya!

  260. 260pat on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:02 pm:

    Hannity steals story.

  261. 261Rose on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:03 pm:

    Throbert McGee:
    Rose, please get a grip. Jennings himself was 24 at the time — in other words, not that far past adolescence himself, which means not that far past wanting to constantly rebel against adult authority and thinking grown-ups were stupid and lame….

    Yeah – I could agree with that. But his later actions put it in a new light. I do agree though, that people ‘back then’ were not as agenda driven as those today.

  262. 262CattusMagnus on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:21 pm:

    #240 Zombie

    Now for another round. And then we’ll see who has the best hand. It’s going to be quite a showdown. For Jennings’ sake, I hope he has a royal flush, because he’s gonna plotz when he sees what I Iay down on the table.

    Okay, I’ll bite. What have you got? Pictures? Videotape? The suspense is killing me. I’d love a new zomblog/zombietime report to read whilst bored at work.

  263. 263zombie on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:56 pm:

    Chris: Quoting Jennings talking about Hay: “He was, at times, a serious political embarrassment, as when he consistently advocated the inclusion of the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) in gay-pride parades.”Jennings was praising Hays early political activism and not his association with NAMBLA.Stop trying to scare people and get ALL the facts first before you smear someone.

    Please, I implore you, provide a link for that quote! If you do, I will try to include it in an update to my post.

  264. 264Chuck's Crack Dealer on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:06 pm:

    148Thomas von der Trave on Oct 7, 2009 at 12:02 am:
    Yes, and to avoid misunderstanding (or misunderestimating), I’m saying if you want to be a playa and force people to apologize or resign, we damn well need to know who the fuck you are in real life. Your days of skulking around with a camera and pleading for anonymity because Big Scrotum Dude might come and pee on your rug are about to end, Zombo. Don’t thank me, chalk it up to your megalomania.

    Realwest, you’re a tool.

    In defence of my friend Realwest, I only have one question for you, Tho… err Ne… err Cato – You still a supporter of Jean-Marie le Pen and his Front National Party, like you used to write about not so long ago? I mean, those guys are Holocaust Deniers, affiliated with various racist (ie. white supremacist) skinhead groups, and people who have committed assaults and murder against people of colour, along with other unsavory acts.

    Does your good buddy Charles know that he has a guy who is so closely connected to white supremacists as a prominent and high profile member of his site? With the recent actions of Killgore at Hot Air, I have to wonder.

    Anyway, have a nice day, N… err Thom… err “Cato”.

  265. 265CattusMagnus on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:08 pm:

    Just saw the update. You mean a “czar” has published some radically controversial literature?! Shocking.

    Is Obama finding the most radical individuals possible for these “czar” positions and hoping nobody notices?

  266. 266zombie on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:08 pm:

    pat: Hannity steals story.

    Not the first time he’s done that.

    Actually, it’s about the fifth time. I’ve basically been relegated to being the only unpaid member on Hannity’s research team.

    And the ironic part? I don’t watch TV and I’ve never seen his show! I only hear about in second-hand reports.

    But I’m secretly happy, because now it is Hannity — not me — who will take the heat from Jennings’ powerful defenders. Seriously, I’d rather that someone else would go to the work to dig this stuff up. I only do it because no one else seems willing to pick up the ball. As long as it enters the mainstream of American consciousness, I’m satisfied. I prefer to stay in the background, if possible.

  267. 267Ken on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:13 pm:

    This message board has become more and more interesting lately. However, it’s a bit hard to follow everything, so many different tangents. Entertaining nonetheless, which is why I always drop by.

    Zomb, you still working on that essay about how right/left don’t mean anything anymore? I’m looking forward to that one. Not that I don’t look forward to the others, of course.

  268. 268zombie on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:19 pm:

    Ken: This message board has become more and more interesting lately. However, it’s a bit hard to follow everything, so many different tangents. Entertaining nonetheless, which is why I always drop by.

    Zomb, you still working on that essay about how right/left don’t mean anything anymore? I’m looking forward to that one. Not that I don’t look forward to the others, of course.

    Yup, I’m still slowly working on it. But I keep getting interrupted by breaking news stories (like this one) and by family/real-life duties.

    Patience, patience.

  269. 269Bolero on Oct 7, 2009 at 10:49 pm:

    zombie: Please, I implore you, provide a link for that quote! If you do, I will try to include it in an update to my post.

    Zombie, I googled the quotation and I found this link http://www.theminorityreportblog.com/story/steve_foley/2009/10/02/harry_hay_nambla_and_obama_s_safe_schools_czar

  270. 270Ringo the Gringo on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:03 pm:

    CattusMagnus,

    “Is Obama finding the most radical individuals possible for these “czar” positions and hoping nobody notices?”

    In the world that Barack Obama came up in, these people are not considered to be radicals, they’re considered quite mainstream.

  271. 271zombie on Oct 7, 2009 at 11:46 pm:

    Chris: Quoting Jennings talking about Hay: “He was, at times, a serious political embarrassment, as when he consistently advocated the inclusion of the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) in gay-pride parades.”Jennings was praising Hays early political activism and not his association with NAMBLA.Stop trying to scare people and get ALL the facts first before you smear someone.

    Bolero:
    Zombie, I googled the quotation and I found this link http://www.theminorityreportblog.com/story/steve_foley/2009/10/02/harry_hay_nambla_and_obama_s_safe_schools_czar

    Sigh. Thank you, bolero.

    Chris, bolero’s link shows that the quote came from the author of the Boston Phoenix article about Hay — not from Jennings.

    Now I will quote a great sage on the issue of smearing people without all the facts:

    “Stop trying to scare people and get ALL the facts first before you smear someone.”

    Oh wait, that was you — talking about yourself.

    The circle is complete. You’re like one of those mysterious quantum particles that just wink out of existence on their own accord. You negated yourself before you even started.

  272. 272yarrrrr on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:28 am:

    zombie:
    Please, I implore you, provide a link for that quote! If you do, I will try to include it in an update to my post.

    You’re not going to find that quote because Jennings wasn’t the one who said it… it came from a profile on Hays…

    http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/other_stories/documents/02511115.htm

  273. 273Alberta Oil Peon on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:36 am:

    Nice work, Zombie. I see even the undead can become Banned. Who knew?

  274. 274Bolero on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:39 am:

    You are welcome Zombie! Boy that link http://www.regularfolksunited.com/index.php?tab=article_view&article_id=2547
    gave a rich plethora of Kevin Jennings’s thoughts and writings. From his F@ck the Christians in a church of all place, to defying elders to create a gay group in Utah to promoting “fisting” to elementary school children….gosh!

    And I thought that schools were a place to learn ABC and science and math? And now children have to learn sexual politics?

    The question about sexual identity is a complex one but I do not think it is the job of the school system to push that. We should educate children well in science, history, language arts, arts, critical thinking skills….and let them come to conclusion on the sex thing on their own…or from the parents or their village or society…delaying sexual gratification never hurt anyone. However delaying and minimizing education does hurt more in all ways.

  275. 275Ken on Oct 8, 2009 at 1:35 am:

    Not the first time he’s done that. Actually, it’s about the fifth time.

    Journalists are finding stories on the Internet and stealing other people’s scoops and passing them off as their own? Whatever happened to the days when people would do their own research? Nobody has any integrity anymore.

  276. 276Starless on Oct 8, 2009 at 6:22 am:

    Bolero:
    I see! Thanks for explaining the complexity. So it was formerly used to mean “hooker”? Oh…that does have a deep implication…did that mean in the early days of hidden homosexuality that they had to use hookers so often, they might as well as use the word ‘gay’? I am going to read the Wikipedia entry you posted…

    “Gay” in Britain seems to have gone through a lot of different mutations in meaning in a relatively short period of time. And while it’s meaning has changed in the U.S., it doesn’t seem to have gone through nearly as many changes as in Britain. This would reflect the different ways English has evolved in the U.S. and Britain — change has been more static and less varied in the U.S. while it’s gone all over the map in Britain.

    Ken: Journalists are finding stories on the Internet and stealing other people’s scoops and passing them off as their own? Whatever happened to the days when people would do their own research? Nobody has any integrity anymore.

    Heh. As with all nostalgia, there’s this misconception that some time in the foggy past journalism actually had integrity. Reporters were supposedly hard-bitten, no-nonsense seekers of Truth who daren’t print anything unless they had checked and re-checked their facts, always gave credit where credit was due, and would serve long prison sentences in order to protect the integrity of their just profession. This is, of course, all a fairy tale.

  277. 277Anonymous on Oct 8, 2009 at 7:10 am:

    Shame on Obama. These people are nothing but a bunch of sick fucks!! What an embarrassment to our country!

  278. 278Ed Mahmoud on Oct 8, 2009 at 7:14 am:

    Jeff Linder, senior meteorologist for the Harris County Emergency Management District, has a good discussion on the potent cold front that will mean the end of 90ºF to 96ºF weather for South Texas. Not mentioned, chance for freezing drizzle North of Amarillo, as nothing comes between Siberia and the North Pole and Texas but barb wire fences. Also not mentioned, chance of first significant lake effect snows of the season Wisconsin to New York Monday and Tuesday. This is a Texas discussion from Dr. Linder, and we care about Buffalo Bayou, and the San Jacinto River, and the Guadalupe River, where many a college kid has floated drunk in inner tubes, and the Tres Palacios River, and the Brazos River. And Cypress Creek, near my house, that somehow has nutria rats. Don’t ask me how nutria rats got here.

    Relief on the way from this oppressive heat and humidity.

    Upper level storm system over the Rockies will move into the plains today and Friday sending a strong cold front through SE TX on Friday afternoon/evening. For today moist southerly flow will increase at the surface as low pressure develops in the lee of the Rockies. Expect wind speeds to increase into the 20-25mph range this afternoon with gust to near 40mph around Matagorda Bay. Past hourly profiler data from Ledbetter, TX showed 45kts at 1,600 ft and CRP 88D showed 35-45kts in gate 1 so once heating commences this energy will begin to mix to the surface. Extremely moist air mass with dewpoints in the upper 70’s/lower 80’s is allowing for streamers to move inland off the Gulf over Matagorda County this morning. Mid level warm layer should keep most activity shallow and scattered today and mainly confined to streamer type showers moving inland under the towering cumulus cloud streets flowing northward out of the NW Gulf.

    Potent storm system and cold front arrive into the mix over NW TX tonight and combine with the incredible moisture to produce a round of heavy rains and strong thunderstorms. Models are in good agreement that a squall line will develop along the front over SW TX through NE TX and move across the state on Friday. GFS seems to be the fastest with the frontal timing with the boundary near the coast by around 600pm Friday evening…while the other guidance is slower. With the mid level ridge shifting eastward, approaching lift ahead of the front, and daytime heating…I suspect we will not be able to hold thunderstorms down too long on Friday. Will probably start to see development at least by noon and then downhill during the afternoon as the front/squall line approaches. There will be a modest severe threat with the storms…mainly a wind threat. However will need to watch for discrete cells out ahead of the main line that could pose a tornadic risk given a low degree of low level wind shear.

    Heavy rainfall threat remains the greatest concern with this event as PWS remain in the 2.2-2.4 inch range which is nearly insane for early October. As mentioned by the morning FWD forecaster…it is rare to have such high PWS air mass in early October and not have flash flooding. Feel the best threat for flash flooding will be north and west of SE TX, although our western and southwestern zones are of some concern…given these areas were hit hardest this past weekend with creeks and rivers near or above flood stage or on their recession limbs. This system should be progressive enough to limit the rainfall mainly to along the squall line however any period of cell training of slowing of the line could bring rapid flash flooding given the extremely moist air mass and great potential for 4 in+ per hour rainfall rates. Flash flood guidance is lowest over Wharton, Jackson, Victoria, Calhoun, and Colorado Counties with watersheds in this area still responding to the rains this past weekend especially the Guadalupe and Lavaca/Navidad river basins. Flash flood guidance is around 3.0-4.0 inches per 3-hours…problem is that this air mass is capable of producing 3-4 inches in an hour… and 1-hr guidance is around 2.5 inches…so run-off seems fairly likely.

    Refreshing cold air advection will onset with the frontal passage and dewpoints will easily fall from near 80 into the 60’s and then the 50’s with gusty NW winds…it will feel much different Saturday morning. Clouds will be slower to clear the area and with cold air advection in place expect highs only to reach the low to mid 70’s on Saturday…about 20 degrees colder than today. Front stalls over the NW Gulf and transforms into a coastal trough. Not sure how far south the front pushes and if the coastal trough formation will be close enough to the coast to keep clouds in place. Isentropic lift creep into the picture by Sunday as dirty SW flow aloft develops over the cold dome at the surface. Models quickly fall out of agreement for early next week with potential secondary push of cold air and development of EPAC tropical cyclone around Baja with good moisture tap over TX. Will not commit to either wet or dry for now and see how things play out over the weekend…but the pattern of late seems to support the wetter solution and we could have Olaf part two play out at some point next week.

    Hydro:

    Guadalupe River:

    River is in minor to moderate flood from above Victoria to below Bloomington. The river is in recession however additional heavy rainfall on Friday will likely produce a new rise and keep the river above flood stage.

    Lavaca River:

    The river crest Wednesday near moderate flood stage at Edna and is quickly falling.

    Navidad River:

    The river has crested and is falling below flood stage at all forecast points.

    Additional heavy rains Friday may slow recessions and likely result in new rises on these watersheds as well as Mustang and East Mustang Creeks in Jackson County.

  279. 279Ed Mahmoud on Oct 8, 2009 at 7:41 am:

    Ok, that was kind of long and spammish.

    If there is a place to by ZombieTime t-shirts in size 3XXL, I will buy a t-shirt as penance.

  280. 280Ed Mahmoud on Oct 8, 2009 at 7:47 am:

    Chain e-mail o the day

    If a conservative doesn’t like guns, they don’t buy one.

    If a liberal doesn’t like guns, then no one should have one.

    If a conservative is a vegetarian, they don’t eat meat.

    If a liberal is, they want to ban all meat products for everyone.

    If a conservative sees a foreign threat, he thinks about how to defeat his enemy.

    A liberal wonders how to surrender gracefully and still look good.

    If a conservative is homosexual, they quietly enjoy their life.

    If a liberal is homosexual, they loudly demand legislated respect.

    If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.

    A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.

    If a conservative doesn’t like a talk show host, he switches channels.

    Liberals demand that those they don’t like be shut down.

    If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn’t go to church.

    A liberal wants any mention of God or religion silenced..

    If a conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it , or may choose a job that provides it.

    A liberal demands that his neighbors pay for his.

    This should define who you are in a nutshell !!

  281. 281Incognito on Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 am:

    Ed Mahmoud: Chain e-mail o the day

    That was funny Ed!! It is almost true!!

  282. 282stuiec on Oct 8, 2009 at 9:53 am:

    Bolero: Stuiec, that was an interesting link you did on Cary Grant!

    Bringing Up Baby is still one of the finest comedies ever made. An incredible cast, an amazing script, taut direction, and the screwiest screwball sensibility of all the screwball comedies.

  283. 283Incognito on Oct 8, 2009 at 9:53 am:

    Zombie, thanks to your post, that got me into researching this topic and I am a little disturbed the agenda behind it. You know, introducing homosexual practices in elementary school including kindergartens.

    I am very much for the protection of children from all kinds of bullying including sexual. But educating children on sexual practices is beyond the pale. They do not need to know that. There are other things they can learn.

    I know we discussed ad nauseam the Intelligent Design controversy in public schools, how that would detract the education of children.

    But no one else is discussing the Left’s agenda on public education: Homosexuality, Abortion, Social “justice”, modified history (more kids seem to know Martin Luther King Jr and Rosa Parks than George Washington and Abraham Lincoln who literally freed the slaves). Oh yes, the Left’s emphasis on evolutionism too. Science should not be political, but it is becoming political, who has the power to influence the next generation. Note that I said evolutionism to differentiate the philosophy versus the scientifically observed evolution which has been supported ad nauseam.

    Zombie, they found what I call the Wedge Document for ACORN in Okhlahoma http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/watercooler/2009/oct/01/local-news-blogging-okla-accorn-ditches-diabolical/

    There was a Left’s push to have more progressives as Secretary of State after seeing the power of the Secretary of State in the Florida election fiasco. I saw that in an article somewhere in the past.

  284. 284pat on Oct 8, 2009 at 10:05 am:

    zombie:
    Not the first time he’s done that.Actually, it’s about the fifth time. I’ve basically been relegated to being the only unpaid member on Hannity’s research team.And the ironic part? I don’t watch TV and I’ve never seen his show! I only hear about in second-hand reports.But I’m secretly happy, because now it is Hannity — not me — who will take the heat from Jennings’ powerful defenders. Seriously, I’d rather that someone else would go to the work to dig this stuff up. I only do it because no one else seems willing to pick up the ball. As long as it enters the mainstream of American consciousness, I’m satisfied. I prefer to stay in the background, if possible.

    The irritating part is that he claims credit. It is likely his producer actually stole the story and fed Hannity, but Hannity could have had the decency to mention the blog that initiated the program. Tasteless.

  285. 285Ed Mahmoud on Oct 8, 2009 at 10:06 am:

    BTW, I can’t go into detail, but LGF’s “Iceweasel” isn’t all that he (yep, “he”) appears to be.

    Chuck’s “correlator” machine that can supposedly match up sock puppets apparently isn’t perfect, and the ability exists to spoof the ID one is supposedly posting to a page from.

  286. 286Ringo the Gringo on Oct 8, 2009 at 10:20 am:

    Ed,

    You seem like a nice enough fellow, but why do post weather reports on other people’s blogs?

    Honestly, what’s the point of it?

  287. 287Ed Mahmoud on Oct 8, 2009 at 10:36 am:

    Because I care.

    Like I said, if there is a store, and they sell XXXL t-shirts, I’m in like Flynt.

  288. 288Incognito on Oct 8, 2009 at 10:38 am:

    Ringo the Gringo: Ed,You seem like a nice enough fellow, but why do post weather reports on other people’s blogs?Honestly, what’s the point of it?

    I agree Ringo…

  289. 289Jim on Oct 8, 2009 at 10:54 am:

    253Throbert McGee on Oct 7, 2009 at 7:45 pm:
    Rose, please get a grip.

    You get a grip. She can criticize who she wants for what she wants without your approval. Stop acting like you are at LGF and can tell people what to think and bully those who disagree with you. Jeesh!

  290. 290Annie Mouse on Oct 8, 2009 at 11:17 am:

    very few comments these days over at little green fascists. charles is this what happens when you ban your best commenters, and all you have left are a dozen psychopaths shouting in an echo chamber? looks like it.
    skanks like andrea and paula and dirty old perverts like cato and kilgore trout. wow. spoiled children like kedja and the weasel and scum like dimmuh round out the dirty dozen. nice group there.
    zombs you were too good for that lot. glad you got out. they are withering. you are thriving.

  291. 291tower on Oct 8, 2009 at 11:28 am:

    Ed, your post at #280 was note perfect. Didn’t you used to give weather reports at LGF?

  292. 292Incognito on Oct 8, 2009 at 11:39 am:

    Now the French Ministry of culture Mitterrand is in hot water regarding the Sex Tourism book he wrote…having fun with the ‘boys’….http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9B72KD00&show_article=1#

  293. 293Dianna on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:16 pm:

    Ringo the Gringo: Ed Mahmoud,Let it go, Ed.If you want to insult Charles, there is a website set up just for that….why don’t you take it there?

    Please. I’m reading zombie’s article, and it’s quite good. It looks like my questions have been answered above, so I’ll just say what a pleasure it is to read this balanced investigation.

  294. 294yarrrrr on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:25 pm:

    Zombie:

    Now for another round. And then we’ll see who has the best hand. It’s going to be quite a showdown. For Jennings’ sake, I hope he has a royal flush, because he’s gonna plotz when he sees what I Iay down on the table.

    Do you have more? Obama’s making his speech at the HRC dinner Sat, then there’s the march on Sun…

  295. 295yarrrrr on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:37 pm:

    Check out this rawstory story… they seem to have more context about that comment… I’ve only briefly browsed it since I’m in a hurry….

    http://rawstory.com/2009/10/rove-smears-obama-adviso/?dsq=19599443

    One think I want to point out is, he praised hays at a GLSEN conference…

  296. 296Dianna on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:39 pm:

    Bolero:
    I see! Thanks for explaining the complexity. So it was formerly used to mean “hooker”? Oh…that does have a deep implication…did that mean in the early days of hidden homosexuality that they had to use hookers so often, they might as well as use the word ‘gay’? I am going to read the Wikipedia entry you posted…

    If you can find a book titled “The Five-Pound Virgins”, you’ll note that a former prostitute, when posing as a procurer, said that the mother of the girl she bought could have been in no doubt as to what she was up to, because she was wearing her old, “gay” clothes.

    I merely note the incident.

  297. 297stuiec on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:39 pm:

    zombie: by the way, our Dear Leader, President Barack Obama, is coming your way to San Francisco for fundraisers on Thursday, Oct. 15.

  298. 298Dianna on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:49 pm:

    Zombie, why would someone trying to make it safe to be openly gay try to “mainstream” something as repugnant as NAMBLA?

    That rather boggles the mind.

  299. 299Anonymous on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:58 pm:

    zombie, watched Hannity last night and mentioned to the turnwife “looks like he ripped zombie off again”. jeeze, at least he could credit you. Nice work. Hi Dianna ..

  300. 300Dianna on Oct 8, 2009 at 1:00 pm:

    Anonymous: zombie, watched Hannity last night and mentioned to the turnwife “looks like he ripped zombie off again”. jeeze, at least he could credit you. Nice work. Hi Dianna ..

    Hi, turn!

    Drop me a line, sometime.

  301. 301anti_left on Oct 8, 2009 at 1:07 pm:

    297stuiec

    it’s “revered leader” please….

    “dear leader” is dictator in north korea

  302. 302Beckaholic on Oct 8, 2009 at 1:20 pm:

    He’s not Dear Leader, he’s Dear Reader. (teleprompter’s his friend….)

    Hey, I’d wear a tee-shirt that says ” Z O M B L O G”

  303. 303stuiec on Oct 8, 2009 at 1:22 pm:

    Beckaholic: He’s not Dear Leader, he’s Dear Reader. (teleprompter’s his friend….)Hey, I’d wear a tee-shirt that says ” Z O M B L O G”

    Dear Reader… that should become his official unoffical title! Kudos!

  304. 304stuiec on Oct 8, 2009 at 1:24 pm:

    O/T but zombie-appropriate: this is what Barack Obama has our troops fighting for.

    I wonder what Obama’s Women’s Issues Czar will have to say about this? Daily Telegraph: Barack Obama adviser says Sharia Law is misunderstood.

    President Barack Obama’s adviser on Muslim affairs, Dalia Mogahed, has provoked controversy by appearing on a British television show hosted by a member of an extremist group to talk about Sharia Law.

    Miss Mogahed, appointed to the President’s Council on Faith-Based and Neighbourhood Partnerships, said the Western view of Sharia was “oversimplified” and the majority of women around the world associate it with “gender justice”.

    The White House adviser made the remarks on a London-based TV discussion programme hosted by Ibtihal Bsis, a member of the extremist Hizb ut Tahrir party.

    The group believes in the non-violent destruction of Western democracy and the creation of an Islamic state under Sharia Law across the world.

    Miss Mogahed appeared alongside Hizb ut Tahrir’s national women’s officer, Nazreen Nawaz.

    During the 45-minute discussion, on the Islam Channel programme Muslimah Dilemma earlier this week, the two members of the group made repeated attacks on secular “man-made law” and the West’s “lethal cocktail of liberty and capitalism”.

    They called for Sharia Law to be “the source of legislation” and said that women should not be “permitted to hold a position of leadership in government”.

    Miss Mogahed made no challenge to these demands and said that “promiscuity” and the “breakdown of traditional values” were what Muslims admired least about the West.

    Nice litotes there: “what Muslims admired least about the West.” Doesn’t she mean, what Muslim extremists despise most, and what motivates them most to destroy the West?

  305. 305Zimriel on Oct 8, 2009 at 1:31 pm:

    {{Dianna}} I missed you! Assuming you’re the same…

    The original will probably get thrown out of That Place either way. Their loss.

  306. 306Dianna on Oct 8, 2009 at 1:32 pm:

    Zimriel: {{Dianna}} I missed you! Assuming you’re the same…The original will probably get thrown out of That Place either way. Their loss.

    I’m me.

    No blog-warring for me, though.

  307. 307Incognito on Oct 8, 2009 at 2:46 pm:

    Zimriel: {{Dianna}} I missed you! Assuming you’re the same…The original will probably get thrown out of That Place either way. Their loss.

    Zimriel…are you the one who came up with the term ‘bad apples’?

  308. 308yochanan ben avrohom on Oct 8, 2009 at 4:04 pm:

    a blog to be nameless sure is on full love me hate me right now. can a blog have mental illness?

    if your banned then you are hated.

  309. 309Ken on Oct 8, 2009 at 4:17 pm:

    Heh. As with all nostalgia, there’s this misconception that some time in the foggy past journalism actually had integrity. Reporters were supposedly hard-bitten, no-nonsense seekers of Truth who daren’t print anything unless they had checked and re-checked their facts, always gave credit where credit was due, and would serve long prison sentences in order to protect the integrity of their just profession. This is, of course, all a fairy tale.

    Well, at least it seemed that way back then, I guess. At least they tried to cover it up when they stole someone else’s story. Now it seems like they don’t even care. Whatever…I’m not a journalist.

  310. 310hardly right on Oct 8, 2009 at 4:24 pm:

    how does it feel to be known as the biggest “concern troll” online?

  311. 311Beckaholic on Oct 8, 2009 at 5:18 pm:

    You can hardly (heh) be a troll on your own blog, Cato- (you’re baaack!) But tell me, is being a concern troll anything like putting “Hey, look everybody! Another stupid Republican!” posts on the front page 10 times a day in order to “save” the party?

  312. 312Formercorpsman on Oct 8, 2009 at 6:02 pm:

    hardly right: how does it feel to be known as the biggest “concern troll” online?

    heh

  313. 313Bolero on Oct 8, 2009 at 6:35 pm:

    hardly right: how does it feel to be known as the biggest “concern troll” online?

    I am concerned about the trolls…I hear they are becoming extinct…

  314. 314Bolero on Oct 8, 2009 at 7:09 pm:

    Zombie, Charles posted a link from Daily Kos attacking you…http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/8/790908/-%28updated%29-A-racist-blogger-behind-some-of-the-attacks-on-Jennings

    I did not realize that Daily Kos was saying you were racist…

    I guess anyone disagreeing with progressive thoughts is a racist?

  315. 315Bolero on Oct 8, 2009 at 7:13 pm:

    Ed Mahmoud: Because I care.

    Like I said, if there is a store, and they sell XXXL t-shirts, I’m in like Flynt.

    Ed, seems to me Sharmuta knows you well, she said on LGF: ‘Maybe Ed could post a weather report as a rebuttal.’

  316. 316stuiec on Oct 8, 2009 at 7:35 pm:

    Bolero: I guess anyone disagreeing with progressive thoughts is a racist?

    Of course – racist, ignorant, misogynist, gay-bashing… oh, and a “teabagger,” which is of course a delicious irony in itself: Progressives happy to use homophobic tropes like the worst Neanderthals so long as it’s in the cause of delegitimizing someone who doesn’t agree with them.

    And dollars to doughnuts that the DailyKos poster is a Lizardoid minion.

  317. 317Lincolntf on Oct 8, 2009 at 8:00 pm:

    stuiec on Oct 8, 2009 at 7:35 pm:

    Heh. That’s a good point. If mainstream media figures began referring to Barney Frank, etc. as “tea-baggers”, how long would it be until they were boycotted/censured/shut down ? Maybe 1 hour? 24 hours?
    Liberals have always loved promoting the notion that there is such a thing as “word-crimes”. I wonder how they’d like being prosecuted for one.

  318. 318Debbie on Oct 8, 2009 at 8:03 pm:

    What a shame Charles Jquotes the very anti Semitic daily kos. Their Jew Hate rivals stormfront. The man is quick to point out others associations while at the same time ignoring his own vile associations. Next on his agenda: praise for al aqsa martyrs brigades.

    And why is he stalking zombie 24/7?

  319. 319Zimriel on Oct 8, 2009 at 9:16 pm:

    Incognito 307, yes, that would be me.

    I got the stick in June but didn’t consider a move to Insidiousbadapolis… until Charles et al. decided to flak for Van Jones, among which enormities the lizards turned upon our host here. I’m… tolerated, you could say, in the LGF diaspora. I agree with LGF and against the diaspora on many issues. But LGF in its present form behaves like a cult, and I wouldn’t support it even if they let me write its charter.

    LGF is currently out to destroy Zombie and, one suspects, anyone else who bids LGF adieu and opposes what LGF is now supporting.

  320. 320stuiec on Oct 8, 2009 at 9:55 pm:

    Debbie: What a shame Charles Jquotes the very anti Semitic daily kos. Their Jew Hate rivals stormfront. The man is quick to point out others associations while at the same time ignoring his own vile associations. Next on his agenda: praise for al aqsa martyrs brigades.And why is he stalking zombie 24/7?

    That IS an interesting point. The LunGFish demands that all right-thinking people shun Robert Spencer for breathing the same air as right-wing nationalists, but somehow it’s peachy-keen to cite DailyKos as an authoritative source and never mind the Jew-hating sewage there, so long as it’s in the cause of attacking an Enemy of the LunGFish Pond.

    Maybe he’s a cross between a LunGFish and a hagfish — you know, the vile creature that defends itself by tying itself into an intractable knot and covering itself in slime and disgusting its predators can’t stand to be around it.

  321. 321CattusMagnus on Oct 8, 2009 at 10:24 pm:

    Bolero: Zombie, Charles posted a link from Daily Kos attacking you…http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/8/790908/-%28updated%29-A-racist-blogger-behind-some-of-the-attacks-on-JenningsI did not realize that Daily Kos was saying you were racist…I guess anyone disagreeing with progressive thoughts is a racist?

    If Zombie is pissing off DailyKos, he/she must be doing something right!

    “The modern definition of a racist is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal”
    – Peter Brimelow

  322. 322Rose on Oct 8, 2009 at 10:39 pm:

    We’re all racists now. We’re all socialists now. Evil Nazis, too, scaring Nancy Pelosi into uncharacteristic – maybe staged – tears. What kind of meme are they trying to set up? And why? And why didn’t they treat Earth First!, the anti-war protestors, Code Pink, the Black Block anarchists, ALF, ELF and Woody Harrelson with the same fear, indignation and denigration? Because wink-wink-nod-nod, those protestors were THEIR protestors. Sent by their benefactor in some cases.

    “Teabagging” expert Anderson Cooper likes to sneer at Tea Party protestors, got his giggles, but he’ll be strangely silent on the “fistgate” tapes, but hey, lefties always get a pass. Sad thing is, this isn’t low level stuff. These whack-jobs are being appointed to the highest levels of our government. It’s too bad the reporters aren’t willing to do their jobs.

    Zombie is doing their job. Don’t attack the messenger. Listen to the message. Pay attention to the facts. Do the right thing. Not the partisan thing – don’t defend someone like these activist Czars just because they were appointed by a democrat. People. You are smarter than that. And if you are a reporter – do your job. Or quit.

  323. 323Anonymous on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:39 am:

    Zombie,

    Your postings are meticulous, well thought out and outstanding in every way. You even have the rare leadership quality to ask for critique and or help to present a fair and accurate expose’.

    That been said, I must appologize for using your fine blog, annon , to stop a rogue site owner from doing any more harm to decent people who do not even realize that they are being used, one that I have been reading since 2001.

    Moles aside ( I know of three frequent posters ) you are being used to get hits which equals money.

    I have searched and have found no site whose owner has reduced himself to begging for contributions.

    A principaled individual with an ounce of dignity would not run Coulter, Beck and Palin ads while at the same time spew vile comments towards the same.

    Again Zombie, sorry for using your site to out this fraud and you know what?

    WE NEED TO KNOW WHETHER YOU CAN BE OUTED BY THIS UNCOUTH individual.

    annon

  324. 324Starless on Oct 9, 2009 at 5:48 am:

    Ken: Well, at least it seemed that way back then, I guess. At least they tried to cover it up when they stole someone else’s story. Now it seems like they don’t even care. Whatever…I’m not a journalist.

    When you’re the only ones creating the narrative you can make things seem any way you want. Whenever I think about journalism I remind myself of the pamphleteers of the 18th C and the yellow journalism of the 19th C. So basically since the printing press came into wide use, journalism has been as unseemly an occupation as any other which involves trading rumors.

    More recently, looking closely at people like Murrow and Cronkite, you see that they weren’t nearly as saintly and rock-solid as they’re often portrayed. Quite the opposite, actually. You don’t become that renowned without a very strong need to have your ego fed.

  325. 325Bolero on Oct 9, 2009 at 8:34 am:

    Anonymous: A principaled individual with an ounce of dignity would not run Coulter, Beck and Palin ads while at the same time spew vile comments towards the same.

    Annon, that is an interesting observation. Sometimes the advertisers do not know that the nature of the blog has changed from one side to another. I don’t think the blogger’s owners have control over the nature of advertisers like from Google. I have seen Google ads on religious sites advertising for p0rn so sometimes funny stuff happens. But it was interesting to note that he is asking for more money and his tip jar is more prominent than before, right above the COMMENTS section.

  326. 326zombie on Oct 9, 2009 at 8:42 am:

    Dianna:
    Please. I’m reading zombie’s article, and it’s quite good.

    Glad to see you honoring us with your presence here!

  327. 327anti_left on Oct 9, 2009 at 8:43 am:

    anon, etc.

    well, I am here to tell ya
    government motors is buying up many of the ads on Hannity’s radio show
    maybe to keep him from bashing the state-run auto-dinosaur-company

    were I him, I’d turn those ads down

    at the VERY LEAST, I would not use my voice in their ads to promote 0bama’s socialsm

    Hannity really lost “points” with me over this
    not that I listen regularly – only when I am in the car during those times he is on
    and don’t watch TV – assume they are doing the same on his Fox show too ?

  328. 328Anonymous on Oct 9, 2009 at 8:46 am:

    More interesting than that, is if you ever sent any $$$, (in the good-old days) you never got an acknowledgement of any sort, much less a thank you, even if it was in the hundreds of dollars, like the world owes him this. I don’t think he actually comprehends that real-live human beings are behind the nics.

  329. 329zombie on Oct 9, 2009 at 8:49 am:

    stuiec: zombie: by the way, our Dear Leader, President Barack Obama, is coming your way to San Francisco for fundraisers on Thursday, Oct. 15.

    I know. He was actually also schedule to award the trophies at the President’s Cup golf tournament in SF on the 11th, and some other event in Oakland — but he has reportedly pulled out of both appearances. Oh well.

    Unlike the last time when O visited San Francisco and I just walked up and shook his hand, this time Secret Service will not let anyone within half a mile of him. I was hoping to get a picture of him smoking a cigarette, but I think my chances of that are next to nil.

    Oh well. Maybe World Can’t Wait will have an anti-Obama protest outside the hotel or something. Sigh. Doesn’t sound too thrilling.

  330. 330Dianna on Oct 9, 2009 at 8:52 am:

    zombie:
    Glad to see you honoring us with your presence here!

    Pleased to see you, zombie; as always, I admire your work.

  331. 331zombie on Oct 9, 2009 at 9:07 am:

    298 Dianna on Oct 8, 2009 at 12:49 pm:
    Zombie, why would someone trying to make it safe to be openly gay try to “mainstream” something as repugnant as NAMBLA?

    That rather boggles the mind.

    Exactly what I thought. Kevin Jennings is just undermining his own goals by staying silent about this.

    Look people, I wasn’t the one who first pointed out the Jennings-Hay-NAMBLA connection. The story had already appeared elsewhere. it’s just that Obama’s and Jennings’ first response to this connection as to say, “What’s the big deal? Harry Hay is a hero! There’s nothing wrong with being inspired by him, and there’s no evidence he was associated with NAMBLA or in favor of pedophilia.”

    That’s when I realized that Jennings was headed for big trouble. Because I knew for a fact that Harry Hay was infamously pro-NAMBLA, something which could be easily documented. If Jennings had placed his entire trust in the defense of “No shame in praising Hay,” then he was headed for a major embarrassment. So I wrote this open letter to warn him to take a different defensive approach — if he throw Hay under the bus, and everything Hay stood for, then Jennings would have a decent chance of sidestepping the scandal. And to convince Jennings of the necessity of this, I provided just a sampling of the pile of evidence that Hay was a NAMBLA-ite.

    But as far as I can tell, Jennings refuses to back down. What in the Hades is he thinking? If he wants to damage the reputation of not just himself but all openly gay teachers, he’s doing a damn fine job.

    Jennings, let me rephrase my recommendation: The very word “NAMBLA” is toxic; you cannot afford to be even remotely associated with it. Make a statement ASAP repudiating Harry Hay! Can’t you see the necessity for this?

  332. 332beckaholic on Oct 9, 2009 at 9:28 am:

    Last night on Hannity, Stephanolpolous said he didn’t think it was a big deal, and besides, he didn’t think Jennings even knew about Harry Hay’s Nambla connections. Hannity mumbled a few things weakly, and Stephanopolous said “well, I haven’t heard about any of that” poo-pooing it because he didn’t know about it. How can he appear as an expert commentator on the subject when he hasn’t even looked into it? Boggles the mind. Hannity also needs to do a better job of hammering the evidence (as outlined above) of Hay defending Nambla.

  333. 333stuiec on Oct 9, 2009 at 9:37 am:

    zombie: I know. He was actually also schedule to award the trophies at the President’s Cup golf tournament in SF on the 11th, and some other event in Oakland — but he has reportedly pulled out of both appearances. Oh well.

    He probably had a heads-up that he might have some Nobel Prize parties to attend in Washington this weekend.

    Which is another scandal and disgrace in and of itself: giving Obama the Nobel Peace Prize at this time not only reaffirms the foolish nature of the selection process but also highlights Obama’s inexperience and incompetence to date. It’s the Nobel committee saying, “Hey, maybe if we give him a Peace Prize, he’ll be able to get something done at last!” (I think the SNL skit put him over the top with the committee.)

  334. 334zombie on Oct 9, 2009 at 9:52 am:

    stuiec:
    He probably had a heads-up that he might have some Nobel Prize parties to attend in Washington this weekend.Which is another scandal and disgrace in and of itself: giving Obama the Nobel Peace Prize at this time not only reaffirms the foolish nature of the selection process but also highlights Obama’s inexperience and incompetence to date.It’s the Nobel committee saying, “Hey, maybe if we give him a Peace Prize, he’ll be able to get something done at last!”(I think the SNL skit put him over the top with the committee.)

    Whoa whoa whoa — wait just a gol durned second. Are you telling me for real that Obama just won the Nobel Peace Prize??!?!?!??

    WTF? No joke?

    I haven’t looked at the news in about three days.

    If this is true, I’m rendered speechless.

    Richard Nixon ended the Vietnam War, and initiated peaceful relations between China and the West. Did he win the Nobel Peace Prize? No. And yet he was a million times more deserving.

  335. 335Formercorpsman on Oct 9, 2009 at 10:29 am:

    After Arafat was given the award, it took its last breath.

    The Nobel Peace Prize is not even on life support anymore.

    I have no problem with someone I disagree with getting the award, but I think one should actually have some verfiable, tangible contributions to speak for it.

  336. 336Finally Free on Oct 9, 2009 at 10:43 am:

  337. 337Finally Free on Oct 9, 2009 at 10:45 am:

    [spam filter seems to have caught 1st copy of comment]
    Zombie, it ain’t no joke. Or rather: it is a fecking sick joke, but unfortunately true. Even the Puffington Host is making fun of it

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-russnow/barack-obama-nobel-peace_b_314899.html

    and here is the London Times saying it “makes a mockery of the prize”:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6867711.ece

  338. 338Finally Free on Oct 9, 2009 at 10:45 am:

    Lots more links here:

    http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/86454/

    Powerline has some great quotes:
    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/10/024668.php
    “The award is so absurd that even leftists have taken note. Ezra Klein wrote: “Obama also awarded Nobel prize in chemistry. ‘He’s just got great chemistry,’ says Nobel Committee.” Ana Marie Cox [a.k.a. Wonkette, FF] wrote: “Apparently Nobel prizes now being awarded to anyone who is not George Bush.” The late-night comedians should have even more fun with this.”

  339. 339pat on Oct 9, 2009 at 11:07 am:

    This sort of like a Messiah Moment, isn’t it?

  340. 340Zimriel on Oct 9, 2009 at 11:26 am:

    They gave that Nobel to Kissinger instead, Zombie. And he didn’t deserve it either.

  341. 341CattusMagnus on Oct 9, 2009 at 11:38 am:

    zombie: Whoa whoa whoa — wait just a gol durned second. Are you telling me for real that Obama just won the Nobel Peace Prize??!?!?!??WTF? No joke?I haven’t looked at the news in about three days. If this is true, I’m rendered speechless.Richard Nixon ended the Vietnam War, and initiated peaceful relations between China and the West. Did he win the Nobel Peace Prize? No. And yet he was a million times more deserving.

    He’s in good company with Jimmah Carter, AlGore and Arafat. What a joke this award has become.
    Have you seen the anti-Obama bumper sticker that says, “Obama: all sham, no wow.”

  342. 342Troy on Oct 9, 2009 at 11:38 am:

    Zombie
    I just want to tell you how much I admire you and how appalled I was by your shabby treatment by people you thought were friends.

  343. 343zombie on Oct 9, 2009 at 11:39 am:

    In a crazy counter-intuitive way, I’m glad this Nobel prize is dominating the news cycle now. Gives me some breathing room to work on all the Jennings/Hay material that I’ve accumulated. It’s so overwhelming, it’s gonna take a few days. So, while everyone’s off being distracted by undeserved prizes, I can try to get my act together of sort out the documentation and evidence.

  344. 344Annonymous on Oct 9, 2009 at 11:51 am:

    Bolero,

    The site owner has stated that he is able to pick and choose even Google ads and in the case of Beck, he is doing it willingly, a paid add, meaning that the site owner was contacted on a one on one basis and decided to run it.
    Within the last 24, he was fawning about the fact that Palin was being featured on his side bar and his hit piece was on the main page.
    Well, I guess that aside from the moles, there are people in this world that need attention and guidance from a site owner that outs readers, posters and fellow associates and would not hesitate for a second to do cyber-harm to any and all the families and friends of individuals that have differing opinions as in the case of GOTC, Nana, Babba, Atlas, Littleold, Ann, and multiple others and now Dianna.

    Not taking it out on you Bolero, just using your post to continue posting my Flounce.

    Again, I apologize for my rant at your site Zombie but a shifty eyed wannabe pimp is still a pimp in the eye of the beholder.

    Annon

  345. 345Incognito on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:10 pm:

    Zombie, I was shocked this morning to see Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize too…it was like WHAAAAAT!!???

  346. 346Incognito on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:12 pm:

    Annonymous: Not taking it out on you Bolero, just using your post to continue posting my Flounce

    That is fine, thanks for your explanations! I saw that Michael Moore advertised his latest movie against capitalism on Drudge Report and ironically Drudge Report was reporting how his movie bombed in the box office…LOL

  347. 347Dianna on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:19 pm:

    Annonymous:
    Well, I guess that aside from the moles, there are people in this world that need attention and guidance from a site owner [...] and now Dianna..Annon

    Please, I don’t want to be part of any blog wars. I don’t know what anyone’s said anywhere about me, and I don’t want to know.

  348. 348Annie Mouse on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:27 pm:

    Dianna,
    you were wise to leave . it is a racist cesspool dominated by perverts, fascists and deviants ( in short, progressives) . it embraces the daily kos, which actively hates Jews. I’m sure you needed a long hot shower to wash the stink off of you

  349. 349Formercorpsman on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:33 pm:

    Formercorpsman: After Arafat was given the award, it took its last breath.The Nobel Peace Prize is not even on life support anymore.I have no problem with someone I disagree with getting the award, but I think one should actually have some verfiable, tangible contributions to speak for it.

    verifiable

  350. 350TheBostonWrangler on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:40 pm:

    Annie Mouse: 348Annie Mouse

    Please. Dianna said she wanted no part of the blog wars, so don’t keep trying to drag her back into it. Let it drop. Time for a clean slate.

    Look what you folks did to zombie. She was banned because people left comments about LGF here. The fact that zombie has never responded to those comments or to the banning one way or another is a pretty good indication that she agrees with Dianna that she wants no part of the blog wars. I mean look at the completely bonkers hate-post that iceweasel or Charles posted at Kos attacking zombie. And what was zombie’s response? Nothing. That shows class, but it should teach us something: she wants to move forward and not look back.

    Sorry to jump in like this zombie and I know you don’t like people speaking for you, but I thought it needed saying. Since this comment itself ended up being about the blogwars, I guess you won’t respond to it either. I understand.

  351. 351tubs on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:43 pm:

    I like the suggestion that, considering that O’s only foreign policy “achievement” thus far was to appease Iran, the prize he won should be renamed the Neville Appease prize.

  352. 352Incognito on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:52 pm:

    TheBostonWrangler: Look what you folks did to zombie. She was banned because people left comments about LGF here. The fact that zombie has never responded to those comments or to the banning one way or another is a pretty good indication that she agrees with Dianna that she wants no part of the blog wars. I mean look at the completely bonkers hate-post that iceweasel or Charles posted at Kos attacking zombie. And what was zombie’s response? Nothing. That shows class, but it should teach us something: she wants to move forward and not look back.

    You are right BostonWrangler! Zombie did NOTHING to deserve the Ban. Said NOTHING.

    Charles accused of Zombie monitoring LGF through a sock named Chicken Kiev. That is his prerogative to believe what he wants to.

    Zombie wants to just do what Zombie does best: investigative journalism. Expose what the MEDIA is not doing…or should have been doing…

  353. 353anti_left on Oct 9, 2009 at 1:01 pm:

    0bama “won” so the Islam-a-peasers can get him to NOT send more troops to Afghanistan

    so the Taliaban can make a comeback and take over again

    then, Turkey and Iraq fall to radicals as we leave the area

    and the domino effect that the US tried to stop by interceding in S. Korea and S. Vietnam all those years ago (but then it was the eeevil commie menace)

    if he falls for it (IMHO he was already with the enemy) we’re screwed – but the good new is
    the Euroweenies will fall before we do

  354. 354Incognito on Oct 9, 2009 at 1:21 pm:

    zombie: Richard Nixon ended the Vietnam War, and initiated peaceful relations between China and the West. Did he win the Nobel Peace Prize? No. And yet he was a million times more deserving.

    I had gone to Nixon’s Library in Yorba Linda…it was interesting walk through history! He was first noted as a politician after he went after the communists. It was interesting.

    And of course he opened the door to the largest communist country in the world: China.

  355. 355Dianna on Oct 9, 2009 at 1:24 pm:

    Incognito:
    I had gone to Nixon’s Library in Yorba Linda…it was interesting walk through history! He was first noted as a politician after he went after the communists. It was interesting.And of course he opened the door to the largest communist country in the world: China.

    Wanna get paranoid? This is a joke theory, not serious, but I enjoy putting it out:

    Richard Nixon was a Soviet mole!

    Discuss.

  356. 356Formercorpsman on Oct 9, 2009 at 1:25 pm:

    Dianna: Wanna get paranoid? This is a joke theory, not serious, but I enjoy putting it out: Richard Nixon was a Soviet mole!Discuss.

    I knew it!

  357. 357Jim on Oct 9, 2009 at 1:42 pm:

    350TheBostonWrangler on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:40 pm:

    Zombie can speak for herself.

  358. 358Annonymous on Oct 9, 2009 at 2:00 pm:

    Dianna,

    Point taken,
    Sorry to have upset you in any way.

    Wrangler,

    NO, you are absolutely wrong. Zombie got called a liar.

    The banning had nothing to do with postings at this site, an uncouth wannabe pimp apparently decided that he had enough information on Zombie that he could reign the posts and blindsided Zombie during a debate about a czar that resigned!,….. resigned!

    The coward is in effect holding Zombie hostage, Zombie shuts up or gets outed.
    ————————————————————————————————————————————–
    As a matter of fact, I have not praised Zombie enough and aside from the aforementioned,
    I trust Zombie to do a complete and factual reporting anywhere in the world and I for one am willing to entertain partial funding of any future endeavours.

    Keep your head up, Zombie

    Annon

  359. 359stuiec on Oct 9, 2009 at 3:02 pm:

    Dianna: Wanna get paranoid? This is a joke theory, not serious, but I enjoy putting it out: Richard Nixon was a Soviet mole!Discuss.

    On the other hand, I would not be at all surprised if some Soviet GRU file surfaced to show how that agency recruited a young officer in Rickover’s nuclear sub corps and helped his political career along in Georgia (the U.S. state, not the former Soviet vassal)… anyone remember the announcement of the Stealth technology program?

  360. 360Dane on Oct 9, 2009 at 3:03 pm:

    Bolero: Zombie, Charles posted a link from Daily Kos attacking you…http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/8/790908/-%28updated%29-A-racist-blogger-behind-some-of-the-attacks-on-JenningsI did not realize that Daily Kos was saying you were racist…I guess anyone disagreeing with progressive thoughts is a racist?

    Heh, whoever wrote that diary stole my line.

    “Protocols of the Learned Elders of San Francisco, eh?”

  361. 361Dane on Oct 9, 2009 at 3:06 pm:

    (Specifically, I used it here. I guess they decided it was too good to come up with their own version.)

    Would there be any chance of getting an edit function on replies at some point? Sometimes my brain moves faster than my fingers do.

  362. 362zombie on Oct 9, 2009 at 3:21 pm:

    Dane: (Specifically, I used it here. Would there be any chance of getting an edit function on replies at some point? Sometimes my brain moves faster than my fingers do.

    Yeah, that would be nice. However, my techno-skills are sorely lacking. Took me this long to just install formating buttons (italic, bold, link, etc.) and a “quote this comment” feature (i.e. the little quote marks under every comment). I was proud of myself for that little advance.

    What I hope toinstall one day in not an “edit function” but a “preview this comment” function. People have released little WordPress plugin doohickeys, but they seems pretty complicated to install and i haven’t got up the nerve to do it yet. Someday soon, hopefully.

    Until then, folks: Read your comment over before clicking “post comment,” because once you do — it’s posted forever!

  363. 363zombie on Oct 9, 2009 at 3:22 pm:

    Typical of me to make several typos in a comment warning people not to make typos.

  364. 364Incognito on Oct 9, 2009 at 4:06 pm:

    Dianna: Richard Nixon was a Soviet mole!
    Discuss.

    Hmmm…that could explain his paranoia of recording everything…hmmm

    Sometimes, people do change…like do I have to give a good recent example?

    Nixon should be also remembered for giving help to Israel in the darkest hour. Yom Kippur War.

  365. 365Incognito on Oct 9, 2009 at 4:16 pm:

    zombie: Typical of me to make several typos in a comment warning people not to make typos.

    Hmm…sounds like you are a human after all…

  366. 366Cynthia on Oct 9, 2009 at 5:21 pm:

    zombie, thanks for this. Thank you for this entire site. I think your anonymity is one of the best things about your reporting; it keeps the real “you” out of the equation, which is as it should be. Hopefully this will become a greater phenomenon, and more and more people will do their own investigating and reporting without hoping to gain anything personally, other than satisfaction and enlightenment. :)

  367. 367stuiec on Oct 9, 2009 at 6:54 pm:

    zombie: Typical of me to make several typos in a comment warning people not to make typos.

    I blame malnutrition. It’s difficult for a zombie who spends so much time mingling with moonbats to find enough brains to live on. But we’re grateful that you do it, so we don’t have to.

  368. 368Throbert McGee on Oct 9, 2009 at 6:55 pm:

    zombie: In a crazy counter-intuitive way, I’m glad this Nobel prize is dominating the news cycle now. Gives me some breathing room to work on all the Jennings/Hay material that I’ve accumulated. It’s so overwhelming, it’s gonna take a few days. So, while everyone’s off being distracted by undeserved prizes, I can try to get my act together of sort out the documentation and evidence.

    I just checked the current front page of the Washington Blade online edition (URL is washblade.com, by the way), and there’s nothing about Jennings. Interestingly, no updates yet about Obama’s Peace Prize, though BHO’s speech to Human Rights Campaign tomorrow (10 Oct) is the above-the-fold story.

    On the other hand, there is some Jennings coverage at the site datelined 9 October, and talking about the Brewster incident, but not about the Harry Hay angle. However, without having seen the paper edition yet (I’ll try to pick up a copy tomorrow — out here in the DC suburbs, the Blade is distributed for free at boxes in metro stations, and at some large public library branches, including a library that’s convenient to me).

    On the third hand, since the Blade is a weekly with new editions each Friday, and since there were obviously a lot of planned-in-advance stories about the DC-area events this weekend (BHO’s speech and a “National Equality March on Washington” on Sunday), it’s not necessarily meaningful or “suspicious” that the 9 October edition would’ve missed the Jennings/Hay developments of this past week. It’ll be interesting to see what the print edition of 16 Oct. has to say about it.

  369. 369Throbert McGee on Oct 9, 2009 at 7:02 pm:

    Throbert McGee:
    On the other hand, there is some Jennings coverage at the site datelined 9 October, and talking about the Brewster incident, but not about the Harry Hay angle. However, without having seen the paper edition yet (I’ll try to pick up a copy tomorrow — out here in the DC suburbs, the Blade is distributed for free at boxes in metro stations, and at some large public library branches, including a library that’s convenient to me).

    Oops, I left that sentence unfinished. I meant to say:

    However, without having seen the print edition yet, I don’t know how prominent the “inside the paper” coverage was.

    I will let you know whether the Blade eventually covers the Hay controversy at all.

  370. 370Dianna on Oct 9, 2009 at 7:20 pm:

    Throbert McGee:
    Oops, I left that sentence unfinished. I meant to say:
    However, without having seen the print edition yet, I don’t know how prominent the “inside the paper” coverage was.I will let you know whether the Blade eventually covers the Hay controversy at all.

    I’ll be interested in their take. In a way, it’s an awful dilemma. You mentioned that you knew of Hays only as a gay activist, and didn’t know about the NAMBLA promotion; that may actually be pretty common, and would pose something of an issue from an editorial and activist point of view.

    Do you understand what Hays was thinking, back then, or can you guess?

    Jennings just leaves me shaking my head.

  371. 371Throbert McGee on Oct 9, 2009 at 8:17 pm:

    Dianna:
    Do you understand what Hays was thinking, back then, or can you guess?

    Dianna, to sum it up really briefly, starting with the simplest hypothesis:

    (1) Hay may have been an actual pedophile who wanted to get into the pants of pre-pubescent boys, notwithstanding the fact that he also had relationships with men his age or older.

    Alternatively, one or more of the following may have been true:

    (2) Hay may have been not technically a “pedophile” who was interested in 8-year-old boys, but one of those men sometimes referred to as an “ephebophile” (an adult of either sex interested in teenagers of either sex) or a “pederast” (a male homosexual ephebophile — i.e., a man interested in teenage boys). NAMBLA has a history of trying to whitewash themselves by claiming they aren’t at all interested in sex with 8-year-old boys; they merely want legal parity for heteros and homos when it comes to age-of-consent laws, so that if a 16-year-old girl can legally consent to sex with a 40-year-old man, then a 16-year-old boy should have exactly the same right. Making it theoretically possible that Hay was “merely” interested in having the legal right as a senior citizen to suck a willing 17-year-old boy’s dick, and therefore he turned a blind eye to the fact that NAMBLA was also talking about men fucking 8-year-olds.

    (3) Hay may have not been interested in minors at all, or even in adult men significantly younger than himself; rather, he was speaking as a former teenage boy who was a major “DILF chaser,” and he let this badly cloud his judgment about NAMBLA. (See my posts #117 and #121 for more on the “DILF-chaser factor,” and how it can make otherwise sensible gay men a bit too slow to condemn NAMBLA, in the same way that some straight men have trouble acknowledging how fucked up Mary Kay Letourneau was.)

    (4) Hay was beyond dispute a radical Communist who might have seen a “shock the bourgeoisie” opportunity in supporting NAMBLA. In fact, Hay was SO radical that he’s on record as disparaging ACTUP — i.e., the gay activists best known for headline-grabbing demonstrations at Catholic cathedrals — as being “assimilationist”! How, one might ask, was ACTUP in the slightest bit “assimilationist”? Well, according to Hay, ACTUP’s direct, confrontational tactics “imitated the machismo of heterosexual men,” and thus excluded gentle, feminine, dress-wearing gay men like himself.

    Until I saw zombie’s evidence as to how frequently Hay spoke at NAMBLA events, I would’ve been willing to believe that (1) wasn’t true at all, and that any association he had with NAMBLA could’ve been explained by some combination of (2), (3), and (4).

    But now I’m more inclined to think that (1) was the major reason Hay supported NAMBLA, though elements of (2), (3), and (4) may have played secondary roles.

  372. 372John on Oct 9, 2009 at 8:22 pm:

    Zombie, this is OT, but do you have any additional information on the death of Dan Kliman back in December? Has the SFPD simply covered this up or do you believe it was an accident? I’ve seen nothing on this in a very long time.

    thanks, John in Dublin

  373. 373Throbert McGee on Oct 9, 2009 at 8:45 pm:

    By the way, the wikipedia biography on Harry Hay is quite comprehensive and does talk about his NAMBLA involvement — albeit “way below the fold,” and tucked into a section talking about Hay’s tendency towards “Anti-Assimilationism”[!!]

    Discuss amongst yourselves, here on Cawfee Tawk: by candidly acknowledging Hay’s support for NAMBLA, yet describing it with as euphemistic a term as “anti-assimilationist,” is wikipedia being part of the solution, or part of the problem?

  374. 374Throbert McGee on Oct 9, 2009 at 9:08 pm:

    Throbert McGee: In fact, Hay was SO radical that he’s on record as disparaging ACTUP — i.e., the gay activists best known for headline-grabbing demonstrations at Catholic cathedrals — as being “assimilationist”! How, one might ask, was ACTUP in the slightest bit “assimilationist”? Well, according to Hay, ACTUP’s direct, confrontational tactics “imitated the machismo of heterosexual men,” and thus excluded gentle, feminine, dress-wearing gay men like himself.

    Ooops, I have to retract the “Hay is on record” statement — I was actually paraphrasing what I’d remembered reading from the Harry Hay bio at wikipedia. But the stuff about Hay regarding ACT UP as “assimilationist” and too full of “machismo” is how a gay historian named John Loughery summarized Hay’s attitude, and were not necessarily the actual words from Hay’s own mouth.

    (And a smaller oops, and note-to-my-inner-copy-editor: it seems that the officially preferred styling for the name of the group ACT UP is: all caps, 2 wds., no hyph.)

  375. 375zombie on Oct 9, 2009 at 9:32 pm:

    John: Zombie, this is OT, but do you have any additional information on the death of Dan Kliman back in December? Has the SFPD simply covered this up or do you believe it was an accident? I’ve seen nothing on this in a very long time.

    thanks, John in Dublin

    All I know is, the police concluded that it must have been an accident, because they could find no compelling evidence for a crime. Unfortunately, they released basically no details of the case to the public, so we’re left scratching our heads. The police said that there was evidence that he appeared to have pried the elevator doors open from the inside, then climbed out and fell. However, they never showed that evidence to the public, and many many unanswered questions remained, in the public’s mind.

    I personally still have my doubts it was an accident, as do several people in Dan’s circle (from what I understand). Others just accept the police’s version.

    Since the case was officially closed, the evidence is no longer available, and I have no experience playing amateur Sherlock Holmes, I think the whole thing will just rest forever as it now is: Officially an accident, an answer which many don’t find satisfactory.

    Dan, R.I.P.

  376. 376John on Oct 9, 2009 at 9:42 pm:

    Thanks for taking the time to respond with the info about Dan Kliman, a sad end to a great life.

  377. 377pat on Oct 9, 2009 at 11:11 pm:

    Dianna, are you allowed here? lol

  378. 378Starless on Oct 10, 2009 at 5:15 am:

    zombie:
    But as far as I can tell, Jennings refuses to back down. What in the Hades is he thinking? If he wants to damage the reputation of not just himself but all openly gay teachers, he’s doing a damn fine job.

    He’s thinking a combination of: “I’m right and you’re wrong”, “It was a long time ago”, “He was a great man [read: celebrity] and the rules of lesser people don’t apply to him”, and “Even if he said what you say he said, there’s free speech in this country”. But mostly the first three, particularly the “great man” argument. Oh, yeah, and I can’t forget, “He was a great gay man so I’ve convinced myself that a noxious association was a mere flaw”.

    “Silence equals death” (a laudable sentiment) has turned into, “Scream so loud at them that you never hear what they have to say”. So you can probably give Jennings as many logically structured arguments as you want but he’ll never, ever listen.

    Throbert McGee:
    they merely want legal parity for heteros and homos when it comes to age-of-consent laws, so that if a 16-year-old girl can legally consent to sex with a 40-year-old man, then a 16-year-old boy should have exactly the same right.

    If that’s their legal theory then they need to study up some. At least in my state, age of consent isn’t a simple line in the sand, instead it’s a relative number based on the ages of both parties. I forget the specifics, but a forty-year-old most definitely couldn’t be with a sixteen-year-old, but a twenty-year-old could. I think quite a few other states have structured their consent laws in a similar manner.

  379. 379Starless on Oct 10, 2009 at 5:59 am:

    Also re: Jennings possible thinking is the moral relativist argument: “Who are we to judge other people?” as is explained in a way in this interview.

  380. 380Shug on Oct 10, 2009 at 8:17 am:

    When is somebody in the press going to ask Obama about this guy?
    can you imagine if George Bush had appointed somebody who praised a NAMBLA supporter?

    The MSM has really become as relevent as the Nobel Committee

  381. 381Dianna on Oct 10, 2009 at 9:16 am:

    pat: Dianna, are you allowed here? lol

    Evidently. Take care.

  382. 382Shug on Oct 10, 2009 at 9:41 am:

    Hi Dianna

  383. 383Dianna on Oct 10, 2009 at 9:43 am:

    Shug: Hi Dianna

    Hi, Shug.

  384. 384Bolero on Oct 10, 2009 at 10:15 am:

    Dianna:
    Hi, Shug.

    Hi Diana and Shug!

  385. 385pat on Oct 10, 2009 at 10:28 am:

  386. 386stuiec on Oct 10, 2009 at 11:02 am:

    Starless: If that’s their legal theory then they need to study up some. At least in my state, age of consent isn’t a simple line in the sand, instead it’s a relative number based on the ages of both parties. I forget the specifics, but a forty-year-old most definitely couldn’t be with a sixteen-year-old, but a twenty-year-old could. I think quite a few other states have structured their consent laws in a similar manner.

    Here in California, we have the occasional billboard reminding us: “Sex with someone under 18 = prison time.”

    There used to be a very helpful mnemonic to remind adults that it was illegal to have sex with adolescent minors: we called the minors “jailbait.”

  387. 387Starless on Oct 10, 2009 at 12:52 pm:

    stuiec:
    Here in California, we have the occasional billboard reminding us: “Sex with someone under 18 = prison time.”There used to be a very helpful mnemonic to remind adults that it was illegal to have sex with adolescent minors: we called the minors “jailbait.”

    Heh. I’d have to look it up to remember, but I think the law here is worded to deal with cases where you’ve got people 21 and under who are within a few years of each other (like 21 and 17 is legal but 21 and 15 is not). So you don’t end up with 16 year old boys in prison as sex criminals because they boffed one of their classmates. It also serves to combat people who want to find loopholes in “age of consent” (like NAMBLA) by setting out specific rules about what “age of consent” means. So the law may say “age of consent is X” but it also says “as long as the other person is no more than Y months older”.

    As I said, I’m a little fuzzy on the specifics. I knew someone who had a 21 year old relative who liked 15 year olds and ended up in Pound-Me-In-The-Ass-Prison for his predilection, and looking into the specifics showed that the law wasn’t as simple as it apparently used to be.

  388. 388zombie on Oct 10, 2009 at 1:17 pm:

    Wow: the final “trackback” link below (at least as of this writing) has a long article about Jennings-gate, and at the end has a list of two kinds of links: blog entries and news articles critical of Jennings, vs. “DEMs Defending Pedophilia…”. Guess what? A link to this essay on zomblog is included as the very top link of “DEMs Defending Pedophilia…”

    Say what?

    Here it is:

    DEMs now the Pedophile Party; Defends Jennings to the end

  389. 389stuiec on Oct 10, 2009 at 4:03 pm:

    zombie: Wow: the final “trackback” link below (at least as of this writing) has a long article about Jennings-gate, and at the end has a list of two kinds of links: blog entries and news articles critical of Jennings, vs. “DEMs Defending Pedophilia…”. Guess what? A link to this essay on zomblog is included as the very top link of “DEMs Defending Pedophilia…”

    The error is that they assume that you are being dead serious in your expressed desire to save Jennings from himself.

    I understand your point to be that if Jennings were to denounce Hay’s support of NAMBLA in unambiguous terms in a public declaration, you’d say that on this count, at least, there would no longer be grounds to go after him — but that you are pretty darn confident that he will do no such thing, which leaves him a fair target for criticism and demands to resign.

  390. 390Bolero on Oct 10, 2009 at 5:24 pm:

    This is Thomas vor der trave aka Cato the Elder [link]

  391. 391zombie on Oct 10, 2009 at 5:52 pm:

    stuiec:
    The error is that they assume that you are being dead serious in your expressed desire to save Jennings from himself.

    Well, in a certain sense, I am dead serious. I really do have no personal animosity toward Jennings; it’s just that he seems oblivious to what’s happening. But that’s doesn’t mean I “support pedophilia” — as I say in the essay, I don’t think Jennings really and truly supports pedophilia, only that he has conveniently turned a blind eye to its proximity too many times.

    I understand your point to be that if Jennings were to denounce Hay’s support of NAMBLA in unambiguous terms in a public declaration, you’d say that on this count, at least, there would no longer be grounds to go after him — but that you are pretty darn confident that he will do no such thing, which leaves him a fair target for criticism and demands to resign.

    Yes, that’s pretty much true. I realize that it may be hard for people at either extreme to grasp the kind of subtle nature of my post: Super-aggressive gay activists look at it and all they see is a right-wing smear job; whereas actual right-wingers look at the exact same post and all they see is a “Dem” who “supports pedophilia.” Got it comin’ from both sides!

    The truth is, Jennings is fundamentally inappropriate for this job. The position is supposed to be about actually making schools physically safe for students, and under Bush that meant getting rid of drugs, gangs, guns, and violence. And hey, I’m all for making schools safe that way. But Jennings’ extremely limited monocular view about ‘school safety’ is confined exclusively to stopping the bullying of gay teenagers by other teenagers, and enforcing speech codes in which certain insults are verboten. And that’s about it as far as Jennings is concerned.

    So, for that reason alone, he ought to be replaced by a Safe Schools Czar who actually knows what he’s doing and focuses on problems that are infinitely more serious that name-calling on the playground. Gangs recruit at schools, kids bring guns to schools, drugs are rife at some schools, terrible mob beatings have happened recently at some schools, Columbine-type kids are waiting to go berserk at other schools — and Jennings’ response to all this is to hold senstivity training sessions as to when it’s proper to use the word “gay.”

    Everyone knows that Obama just hands out these positions as payback to his supporters, and to help them get more of a platform for their personal idiosyncratic agendas. He doesn’t search for the right person for the job; he instead first chooses the person, then tries to find any czar position that might be vaguely applicable.

  392. 392stuiec on Oct 10, 2009 at 6:12 pm:

    zombie: Everyone knows that Obama just hands out these positions as payback to his supporters, and to help them get more of a platform for their personal idiosyncratic agendas. He doesn’t search for the right person for the job; he instead first chooses the person, then tries to find any czar position that might be vaguely applicable.

    Obama needed to find an important-looking job for a prominent gay-rights activist in order to deflect the criticism that he’s weaker on gay rights than he should be (not abolishing don’t-ask-don’t-tell, not speaking out against the Defense of Marriage Act). So picking Jennings as a high-profile activist makes sense from that political perspective, and of course Jennings would only want to take a position dealing with education.

    And then some kids go and beat another kid to death outside a Chicago school, and the issue of safe schools gets brought into sharp focus.

    Jennings’s connection to Harry Hay notwithstanding, his appointment is a slap in the face to all the kids in dangerous schools who need and deserve an advocate for ending violence on and around campus.

  393. 393Bolero on Oct 10, 2009 at 7:29 pm:

    stuiec: And then some kids go and beat another kid to death outside a Chicago school, and the issue of safe schools gets brought into sharp focus.

    Jennings’s connection to Harry Hay notwithstanding, his appointment is a slap in the face to all the kids in dangerous schools who need and deserve an advocate for ending violence on and around campus.

    That is a great point! Safe School Czar is not supposed to cater only to gay kids but to ALL kids!!

  394. 394Bob on Oct 10, 2009 at 8:15 pm:

    Kevin Jennings is catering to ALL kids. Schools must be a safe space for them ALL. That’s why a person like Kevin is on the job. No one is more qualified than him to deal with the problems. All the false accusations and smears are political game for the disgusting right wingers.

  395. 395Bob on Oct 10, 2009 at 8:21 pm:

    Homophobia is well on its way to join racism in the same corner of shame in our history books.

  396. 396Anon on Oct 10, 2009 at 8:50 pm:

    Rarg blarg I think anti-pedophiles are homophobic. I am a child. Literally.

  397. 397b1jetmech on Oct 10, 2009 at 11:39 pm:

    Bob on Oct 10, 2009 at 8:15 pm:

    Kevin Jennings is catering to ALL kids. Schools must be a safe space for them ALL. That’s why a person like Kevin is on the job. No one is more qualified than him to deal with the problems. All the false accusations and smears are political game for the disgusting right wingers.

    Yeah, He sure is for all the kids. There should be a safe place for kids from pedophiles.

    Those DAMN RIGHT WINGERS!

  398. 398stuiec on Oct 10, 2009 at 11:39 pm:

    Bob: Kevin Jennings is catering to ALL kids. Schools must be a safe space for them ALL. That’s why a person like Kevin is on the job. No one is more qualified than him to deal with the problems. All the false accusations and smears are political game for the disgusting right wingers.

    Has he publicly said one word – ONE – about the death of a Chicago schoolkid at the hands of other kids?

    The Attorney General and the Secretary of Education made a public statement… on Oct. 7… almost TWO WEEKS after the kid was beaten to death.

    “Safe schools for all kids,” my ass. Let Kevin Jennings go teach for a decade in the inner city and then he can talk about what makes for a safe school.

  399. 399Anonymous on Oct 11, 2009 at 12:15 am:

    Bolero: This is Thomas vor der trave aka Cato the Elder [link]

    More Cow Bell

  400. 400Starless on Oct 11, 2009 at 5:39 am:

    zombie:
    The position is supposed to be about actually making schools physically safe for students, and under Bush that meant getting rid of drugs, gangs, guns, and violence. And hey, I’m all for making schools safe that way. But Jennings’ extremely limited monocular view about ’school safety’ is confined exclusively to stopping the bullying of gay teenagers by other teenagers, and enforcing speech codes in which certain insults are verboten.

    But being trendy and making empty gestures is what it’s all about in the Obama administration and anti-bullying campaigns in schools are all the rage now. Beyond the Harry Hay stuff, what Jennings apparently stands for professionally is based on a false assumption. The assumption that the best way to deal with bullying is to create a formal structure within the school system to try to stifle a fundamental element of human behaviour. What is going to happen when these kids become adults and go out into the work world where work place bullying is common and can have personal economic impact? Run to the boss (aka Teacher) every time they get their feelings hurt? Nothing says, “Focus on me like a laser for the next round of layoffs,” like complaining to the boss because the guy in then next cubicle called you a bad name.

    Bob: Homophobia is well on its way to join racism in the same corner of shame in our history books.

    Oh, yeah, here we go. “Gay marriage is the most important civil rights issue ever in the history of humankind! And if you don’t agree with me you must hate gay people!”

  401. 401Lincolntf on Oct 11, 2009 at 8:58 am:

    Homophobia is well on its way to join racism in the same category of accusations that have zero weight in the real world because they have been misapplied and used for political advantage so many times.
    The biggest enablers of both homophobia and racism are the callow Leftists who have cried wolf for so long that they’ve robbed both words of any meaning. They should be ashamed of themselves.

  402. 402zombie on Oct 11, 2009 at 9:07 am:

    Bob: Homophobia is well on its way to join racism in the same corner of shame in our history books.

    Yes, that’s true. And just like the accusation of “racism,” the charge of “homophobia” will soon lose any potency due to people like you flinging it around with no basis in fact as a sort of all-purpose insult.

    What’s shameful about the “Corner of Shame” is that the language becomes meaningless over time as words are abused and manipulated for political reasons.

    Very perceptive of you to notice that.

  403. 403Bolero on Oct 11, 2009 at 10:12 am:

    zombie: Yes, that’s true. And just like the accusation of “racism,” the charge of “homophobia” will soon lose any potency due to people like you flinging it around with no basis in fact as a sort of all-purpose insult.

    Well said!!

  404. 404pat on Oct 11, 2009 at 10:15 am:

    zombie:
    And just like the accusation of “racism,” the charge of “homophobia” will soon lose any potency due to people like you flinging it around with no basis in fact as a sort of all-purpose insult.

    ditto

  405. 405stuiec on Oct 11, 2009 at 10:23 am:

    Gee, if the Don’t-Ask-Don’t-Tell policy is kaput, doesn’t that mean that the military CAN ask, and that the service member MUST tell? You know, so he or she can be assigned to the correct housing and such?

  406. 406zombie on Oct 11, 2009 at 10:54 am:

    stuiec: Gee, if the Don’t-Ask-Don’t-Tell policy is kaput, doesn’t that mean that the military CAN ask, and that the service member MUST tell?You know, so he or she can be assigned to the correct housing and such?

    What do you mean “correct housing”? Did Obama say that gays in the military would get segregated housing? That seems like going backwards, not forward.

    No, I assume that gay soldiers will continue to bunk with straight soldiers. They really shouldn’t be creating “gay ghettoes” or “straight ghettoes” in military housing (depending on who gets the better bunks).

    One wonders, however, how much tension this might create in the ranks. I could easily see how various levels of uncomfortableness might crop up in certain situations. In boot camp and for Privates, there’s not really much personal privacy.

    If I was president, I’d change “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” to “Don’t Know, Don’t Care.”

  407. 407stuiec on Oct 11, 2009 at 11:10 am:

    zombie: What do you mean “correct housing”? Did Obama say that gays in the military would get segregated housing? That seems like going backwards, not forward.

    Do they bunk female service members with male service members on a routine basis? If not, why not?

  408. 408SPayne on Oct 11, 2009 at 11:18 am:

    I can’t believe I’m part of a generation in which anyone who objects to child molestation is tagged “right wing zealot.”

  409. 409Crusty on Oct 11, 2009 at 5:21 pm:

    I see Charles is marketing his own brand of Little Green Footballs Sunglasses.

  410. 410Starless on Oct 12, 2009 at 4:57 am:

    stuiec: Gee, if the Don’t-Ask-Don’t-Tell policy is kaput, doesn’t that mean that the military CAN ask, and that the service member MUST tell?You know, so he or she can be assigned to the correct housing and such?

    Huh? Maybe I’m seeing the wrong headlines, but it seems as though DADT is far from kaput. That Obama’s promises about DADT and DoMA have as much weight as his promises to close Gitmo.

    stuiec:
    Do they bunk female service members with male service members on a routine basis?If not, why not?

    Different services have different policies regarding male/female interaction (like in the USN, women can serve on every type of ship except submarines), but I don’t think any of them have the sexes bunking together. What people who scream about “equality” in the military forget is that most of the so-called men and women serving are somewhere in the 18-21 year old range and there are some significant practical problems with having them bunk together.

  411. 411yarrrrr on Oct 12, 2009 at 7:39 am:

    Can someone do an independent fact check this washtimes editorial…

    http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/12/jennings-falsely-claims-discrimination/

    “I was a very scared young gay teacher. I had been fired at my first job for being gay. And in my second job, I wasn’t quite sure how to deal with that…”

    “In his 2006 autobiography, “Mama’s Boy, Preacher’s Son,” Mr. Jennings has a completely different explanation for what happened at his first teaching job at the Quaker Moses Brown School in Providence, R.I. Contrary to being fired for being a homosexual, Mr. Jennings concludes the chapter discussing his time at the school by writing, “My days at Moses Brown ended, without my ever having been asked or having answered the Question [about whether he was homosexual]. For two years I have lied, letting my students and myself down in the process. I vowed I would never do it again.” “

  412. 412zombie on Oct 12, 2009 at 9:14 am:

    411 yarrrrr
    Can someone do an independent fact check this washtimes editorial…

    Ah, I was just looking at a copy of “Mama’s Boy” in the library, but I no longer have it with me. However, I’m quite sure the Washington Times account is true: It would be pointless to shoot themselves in the foot to make such an easily disprovable claim and damage their credibility over such a minor issue. Jennings has a long track record of exaggerating tales of discrimination for dramatic effect. Embroidering his story to claim he was fired for being gay would be exactly the kind of thing he’d do.

    In fact, it’s not just Jennings. Right now I’m reading a book on his GLSEN reading list, a series of short memoir-y pieces by gay youth, and lo and behold every single one of them seem to have suffered identical types of prototypical gay-bashing and discrimination by stereotypes of redneck homophobes. In every city across the country, including SF and NY and beyond. The repetitive similarly between all the stories had me absolutely convinced that the students were encouraged to invent or exaggerate any kind of tale of abuse, as a sympathy ploy. Most of of the tales seem patently false, as the young contributors had not yet developed any literary skill at believably fabricating stories, so the redneck crewcutted gay-bashers hurling epithets out of the car window always seem to talk like villains from a 1950s hotrod movie — even though the incident was supposed to have taken place in Manhattan in 2003.

  413. 413Starless on Oct 12, 2009 at 9:35 am:

    zombie:
    Most of of the tales seem patently false, as the young contributors had not yet developed any literary skill at believably fabricating stories, so the redneck crewcutted gay-bashers hurling epithets out of the car window always seem to talk like villains from a 1950s hotrod movie — even though the incident was supposed to have taken place in Manhattan in 2003.

    Do the rednecks all have a pack of Luckies rolled up in the sleeve of their white t-shirts? In response to the question, “What are you rebelling against, Johnny?” do they say, “Whaddya got?” Is there a scene where the homophobic redneck date rapes the head cheerleader to try to prove he is, in fact, not a repressed homosexual?

    Are these kids really fabricating/fictionalizing these stories, or has the victim meme been so ingrained that they all believe that when one of their classmates calls them “fag” that they extrapolate this incident out to the equivalent of a physical beating?

  414. 414Ray on Oct 12, 2009 at 9:57 am:

    stuiec: Do they bunk female service members with male service members on a routine basis? If not, why not?

    They do not while in garrison, but while deployed things can get pretty close. As someone mentioned, when you get a bunch of males and females from 17 to 27 together, regardless of circumstances, things happen… a lot. When I was deployed 9 months it seemed like I was the only one not bonking someone else in the command. I just drank and smoked occasionally to relax.

  415. 415zombie on Oct 12, 2009 at 10:00 am:

    413 Starless: Are these kids really fabricating/fictionalizing these stories, or has the victim meme been so ingrained that they all believe that when one of their classmates calls them “fag” that they extrapolate this incident out to the equivalent of a physical beating?

    That second option just about hits the nail on the head. Every slight — or every perceived slight — gets blown out of proportion and escalates with every retelling. What starts with a classmate giving you a funny look transforms after 6 years of embroidering into being crucified on a burning cross by Dick Cheney at a KKK rally.

  416. 416stuiec on Oct 12, 2009 at 10:37 am:

    Starless: Different services have different policies regarding male/female interaction (like in the USN, women can serve on every type of ship except submarines), but I don’t think any of them have the sexes bunking together. What people who scream about “equality” in the military forget is that most of the so-called men and women serving are somewhere in the 18-21 year old range and there are some significant practical problems with having them bunk together.

    It was shortly after Bill Clinton visited the USS Theodore Roosevelt in March 1993 that his commitment to integrate gays into the military morphed into “don’t ask, don’t tell.”

    As the L.A. Times reported:

    Again and again, sailors complained that allowing homosexuals on their carrier would compromise their privacy. In some units, 45 sailors share bunks in a space roughly 15 feet by 20 feet, although, because of varying shifts, all the sailors do not use the space at once.

    I recall that the day the DADT policy was announced; that night, there was a small riot in the streets of San Francisco, with some police cars overturned and set aflame.

  417. 417CattusMagnus on Oct 12, 2009 at 11:42 am:

    zombie: That second option just about hits the nail on the head. Every slight — or every perceived slight — gets blown out of proportion and escalates with every retelling. What starts with a classmate giving you a funny look transforms after 6 years of embroidering into being crucified on a burning cross by Dick Cheney at a KKK rally.

    A KKK rally on Rush Limbaugh’s front lawn . . . . as the entire LDS church, dressed as SS uniforms, gleefully looks on.

  418. 418Starless on Oct 12, 2009 at 12:34 pm:

    Ray:
    They do not while in garrison, but while deployed things can get pretty close. As someone mentioned, when you get a bunch of males and females from 17 to 27 together, regardless of circumstances, things happen… a lot. When I was deployed 9 months it seemed like I was the only one not bonking someone else in the command. I just drank and smoked occasionally to relax.

    One of the things the horrible documentary Carrier unintentionally pointed out was why generals and admirals become uneasy when there’s talk of integrating women even farther into the services. Get a bunch of boys and girls who are essentially still adolescents together in a situation which frequently pumps their adrenaline up to 11 and they’ll naturally start going at it like rabbits. In dorm rooms it may be mostly harmless fun but in combat it can mean death.

    zombie:
    That second option just about hits the nail on the head. Every slight — or every perceived slight — gets blown out of proportion and escalates with every retelling. What starts with a classmate giving you a funny look transforms after 6 years of embroidering into being crucified on a burning cross by Dick Cheney at a KKK rally.

    Dick Cheney would shoot them in the face before the crossburning and after he’d told them to go fuck themselves.

    I guess I better start stewing over every time I’ve been called a bad name or had someone presume something negative about me. I might be able to get something out this whole victim business.

    stuiec:
    It was shortly after Bill Clinton visited the USS Theodore Roosevelt in March 1993 that his commitment to integrate gays into the military morphed into “don’t ask, don’t tell.”

    Which demonstrates how much he understood the military. Navy guys on deployment are constantly cheek-by-jowl. It’s a physical reality of being on a ship. In other services, it’s a slightly different story.

  419. 419stuiec on Oct 12, 2009 at 12:45 pm:

    Starless: One of the things the horrible documentary Carrier unintentionally pointed out was why generals and admirals become uneasy when there’s talk of integrating women even farther into the services. Get a bunch of boys and girls who are essentially still adolescents together in a situation which frequently pumps their adrenaline up to 11 and they’ll naturally start going at it like rabbits. In dorm rooms it may be mostly harmless fun but in combat it can mean death.

    You ain’t kidding:

    Abstract: Unplanned pregnancies among active duty Sailors continue to be of concern. In 2001, 10% of young (E-2 through E-4) female Sailors became pregnant. Of all pregnancies among surveyed enlisted female Sailors during that year, only 1 of 3 (36%) was planned. In FY2002, this rate fell to 30%. The national “Healthy People 2010″ objective is to increase the proportion of pregnancies that are intended to 70%. Planned pregnancy rates among surveyed active duty Navy enlisted women in 1988, 1992, 1997, 1999, 2001 and 2003 are shown in Figure 1. Navy women who become pregnant often report the father to be another military member. For the most recent pregnancy experienced by those ever pregnant while in the Navy, 73% of enlisted members surveyed in 2001 said the father was a military man. About half of the enlisted female Sailors who experienced an unplanned pregnancy were unmarried (49%), and about half of the enlisted female Sailors that experienced an unplanned pregnancy were married during their most recent pregnancy (49 percent). The vast majority (81%) of men who fathered the children of unmarried Sailors in 1999 were military men. A significant proportion of these children are born to single parents. Among male enlisted Sailors, one of four single fathers with custody in 2001 was unmarried. Of female parents Navy-wide, 24% were single in 2001. Of male Navy parents in 2001, 6% were single. Fully 7% of all Navy women in 2001 were single parents, as were 3% of all Navy men. In 2003, there were over 5,000 single Navy mothers and over 10,000 single Navy fathers. The report also discusses the consequences of unplanned pregnancy, particularly single parenthood, and the costs of such pregnancies to the Navy in terms of dollars, reduced duty hours, absence from the workplace, reassignment, and staff shortages. Also discussed are sailors’ attitudes toward birth control, knowledge of birth control, education about birth control, and access to birth control.

  420. 420sjh on Oct 12, 2009 at 12:57 pm:

    I think you are giving this guy just a little too much benefit of the doubt here.

  421. 421buzzsawmonkey on Oct 12, 2009 at 5:13 pm:

    totally OT:

    Your Last Posting
    (Los Angeles)

    –apologies to Robert Browning and “My Last Duchess”

    That’s your last posting ever on this blog,

    And henceforth your account is blocked. You’ll dog

    My site no further with your words; your nic
    
Is banished, and I gave your posts the stick.

    You know I’ll call your banning here a “flounce”
    Though I’ve been waiting for some time to pounce
    On your account, and with prevarications
    Distort and demonize your observations.
    The Toad Hall where you reveled, if you please’ll
    Be given entire to the stoats and weasels,
    
My countenance beaming on each one that
    Comes to me bearing tales of Mole or Rat,

    Or Badger, or…sockpuppet. No, ‘t was not

    This writing only, placed you on the spot

    And caused me to invoke the ban: perhaps

    You chanced to differ with my own claptrap
    And stick to your position, or dispute
    Conventional wisdoms to which repute

    I’ve lately granted. Don’t you dare to say

    That I or my site might have lost their way
    Obsessing on my personal vendettas;
    
I am neither forgiving nor forgetter,

    And will not brook a failure of obesiance

    By anyone I feel owes me allegiance.
    Yes, I took Rather down, on grounds that he
    Could not support what he claimed factually;
    But now I set my sights at lower bar
    (On personalities, not things that are)
    While I squat ‘midst the wreckage I have made
    Like mad Kurtz ruling from his bush stockade,
    Ringed ’round with skulls. For I no longer deign
    To weigh a fact itself; instead, maintain

    That source determines truth, and to that end
    The nature of veracity I bend,
    Citing to midden-heaps of rankness such

    That I would not long since have scorned to touch.

    A turtle is a lizard in a shell,
    And I, lord of my self-created hell

    Remain King Yertle of the Turtle Stack
    
Exalted on my Posting Turtles’ backs–
    Yet conscious, as I proclaim my renown
    
It’s just posting turtles, all the way down,
    
Which is why I respond with rage and fear

    Should anyone mouth what I deem a sneer

    Or contradiction. So I flip a switch,
    And all posts stop together, with a bitch

    Given reign of my elegant designs.

    Yet, if I still retained but half a spine

    I would despise appearing to be led

    As I now seem to, by the lesser head.

    Hark! Look you! See how Glenn Beck weeps!

    Do you not loathe the company he keeps
    Regardless of whatever he might say?
    Here is the global warming word today; 

    Do not dissent, the banning stick is toward
    I care for no voice save that of accord!

  422. 422CattusMagnus on Oct 12, 2009 at 5:45 pm:

    #421 buzzsawmonkey,
    How long do you think it took him to compose that?

  423. 423Slowly I Turned on Oct 12, 2009 at 6:04 pm:

    CattusMagnus: #421 buzzsawmonkey,
    How long do you think it took him to compose that?

    He was having trouble deciding between a masterful reinterpretation of “My Last Duchess” or the more succinct, “Chuckweasel, gnaw my dingleberries!”

    I’m glad Buzz had the poise to choose the former.

  424. 424MalarkeyMachine on Oct 12, 2009 at 6:08 pm:

    421 buzzsawmonkey

    That’s so far over Lord Charles’ head, he probably has no clue what a devastating put-down it is.

  425. 425stuiec on Oct 12, 2009 at 6:26 pm:

    buzzsawmonkey #421: amazing. BTW, you can replace “perhaps” with “mayhap” to correct the rhyme.

  426. 426Dianna on Oct 12, 2009 at 6:56 pm:

    Buzz, that’s very well done. I would agree, though, that you need to replace “perhaps” with “mayhap.” The foot drags, as well as makes a hash of the rhyme.

  427. 427beckaholic on Oct 12, 2009 at 6:59 pm:

    A turtle is a lizard in a shell,
    And I, lord of my self-created hell

    Remain King Yertle of the Turtle Stack
    
Exalted on my Posting Turtles’ backs–
    Yet conscious, as I proclaim my renown
    
It’s just posting turtles, all the way down,

    BRAVO! Buzzsawmonkey. Beautiful. Best ever….

  428. 428beckaholic on Oct 12, 2009 at 7:04 pm:

    (And she most definitely is a bitch on wheels. BTW.)

  429. 429Ringo the Gringo on Oct 12, 2009 at 7:14 pm:

    421buzzsawmonkey,

    Bravo!

  430. 430buzzsawmonkey on Oct 12, 2009 at 8:10 pm:

    You folks are right about “mayhap.”

    Is my face red! On the other hand, if that’s the only flaw, it’s not so bad…

  431. 431Zimriel on Oct 12, 2009 at 8:17 pm:

    Even Robert Browning might have to give that one props…

  432. 432Jorline on Oct 12, 2009 at 9:58 pm:

    buzzsawmonkey: 430buzzsawmonkey on Oct 12, 2009 at 8:10 pm:

    You folks are right about “mayhap.”

    Is my face red! On the other hand, if that’s the only flaw, it’s not so bad…

    Quote

    Buzz, good to see you. Come and see your friends over at C2.

    No offense zombie, we would be honored by your presence as well. Your wit, research and editorials are unmatched.

  433. 433stuiec on Oct 12, 2009 at 9:59 pm:

    buzzsawmonkey: You folks are right about “mayhap.” Is my face red! On the other hand, if that’s the only flaw, it’s not so bad…

    Now, how are you going to wallpaper the blogosphere with it?

  434. 434CattusMagnus on Oct 12, 2009 at 10:58 pm:

    stuiec:
    Now, how are you going to wallpaper the blogosphere with it?

    That’s a fine idea.

  435. 435Starless on Oct 13, 2009 at 5:30 am:

    stuiec:
    You ain’t kidding:

    Puts me in mind of the scene from The Enforcer when Tyne Daley’s character is being tested for Inspector. Dirty Harry says something along the lines of, “That’s a hell of a price to pay for being fashionable.”

    WaPo article on DADT. If true, this is horrible, but I’m sensing a Tawana Brawley feel to his story. Maybe it’s not that much of a lie, maybe it’s more along the lines of what Zombie was saying about the memoir-y teen stories — a story exaggerated over time for effect. But if true, this is an Abu Grab-level incident meriting a massive inquiry and serious prison time for at least the CPO.

  436. 436threecoloursblue on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:25 am:

    Well “buzz” ; your just -under-the -radar -racism and general allround nastiness finally caught up with you, eh ?

  437. 437buzzsawmonkey on Oct 13, 2009 at 8:23 am:

    threecoloursblue: Well“buzz” ;your just -under-the -radar -racism and generalallround nastiness finally caught up with you, eh ?

    Why, iceweasel! Using your old nic?

  438. 438Shug on Oct 13, 2009 at 8:24 am:

    Hi Buzzsawmonkey

    Your wit is a valuable asset.

  439. 439Shug on Oct 13, 2009 at 8:26 am:

    Zombie,
    that link ( Becoming Visible) is some find.
    what a shame absolutely nobody the media isn’t doing their job, eh?

    At least somebody *( you) is doing investigative journalism these days

    has hannity stolen it from you yet?

  440. 440buzzsawmonkey on Oct 13, 2009 at 8:27 am:

    Shug, nice of you to say so.

    It’s a pleasure to be able to roam free like the buffalo.

  441. 441Jorline on Oct 13, 2009 at 8:54 am:

    Buzz, see my #432.

    Assweasel, you’re such a gash.

  442. 442Shug on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:19 am:

    Threecoloursblue = mostly red

  443. 443Muletrain on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:22 am:

    Weasil Eye Ice ain’t no bitch on wheels. She’s a drag queen from the UK

  444. 444grassshopper on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:26 am:

    assweasel – thanks for destroying LGF! Your Kos masters msut be real proud.
    /sarcasm

  445. 445HarryV on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:29 am:

    Iceweasel: You are a low-life POS. When the history of the demise of LGF is written, your name will be prominent among the reasons why no decent person will be seen there or link to it. Congratulations.

  446. 446Russkilitlover on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:35 am:

    Buzzsawmonkey! Brilliant, as usual.

    Iceweasel – yes, you are a bitch. A snarling, drooling, foaming at the mouth bitch. Deal with it.

  447. 447Dianna on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:36 am:

    Very, very glad to see you, buzzsawmonkey.

  448. 448trust and verify on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:44 am:

    Ice weasel=jimmah. Anyone care to comment?

  449. 449Pullus Iulius on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:47 am:

    Buzzsawmonkey – brilliant! Devastating! And Iceweasel – back into your hole, filthy proggy pet. Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make humorless (or is it humourless?). You never could take it.

  450. 450buzzsawmonkey on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:50 am:

    Hello, friends! Glad you liked the verse.

  451. 451Callahan23 on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:56 am:

    Buzzsawmonkey, brilliant as we all have come to expect ;-)
    Roamin’ the prairie free as a buffalo, ay ?

    You really rock. As does Zombie and …… ehem.
    I am not gonna look back. CC is the place for that.

  452. 452Dianna on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:56 am:

    trust and verify: Ice weasel=jimmah. Anyone care to comment?

    No. Is this really worth doing?

  453. 453Dianna on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:57 am:

    buzzsawmonkey: Hello, friends!Glad you liked the verse.

    I regret losing my “favorites”, most of which were your songs. I do so enjoy your work.

  454. 454Dianna on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:58 am:

    buzzsawmonkey: Hello, friends!Glad you liked the verse.

    BTW, I know another place you would be most welcome, Teh Squeaky Wheel.

  455. 455Ringo the Gringo on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:59 am:

    Nice to see you, buzzsaw.

    …although, it appears you’re being stalked by an assweasel.

  456. 456buzzsawmonkey on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:01 am:

    That damn C2 registration is driving me nuts; a techie, I ain’t. And since I have a deadline this week, it’ll be a while before I sort it out.

  457. 457Dianna on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:03 am:

    buzzsawmonkey: That damn C2 registration is driving me nuts; a techie, I ain’t.And since I have a deadline this week, it’ll be a while before I sort it out.

    Create a google account. It’s very easy; even I managed it.

    And this, as I freely admit, means it’s doable by a technical moron.

  458. 458Shug on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:05 am:

    iceweasel what a pity you seem to have been a large part in the destruction of an excellent web community. but maybe that was your intention all along.
    what’s the old saying: a turd in a glass of champagne.

  459. 459Ringo the Gringo on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:05 am:

    I went with the Google account too. Once you’ve got it, be sure to check the “remember” tab so you don’t have to log in every time.

  460. 460Callahan23 on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:05 am:

    Buzz, In case you need help drop me or some other a line.

  461. 461stuiec on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:08 am:

    buzzsawmonkey: I posted your ode at Up from the Slime. At least three other people should see it there… hey, it’s a start.

  462. 462Shug on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:08 am:

    iceweasel,
    a correction to my post.
    you’ve actually succeeded in the creation of 2 or 3 excellent web communities.
    So in a way, you are to be congratulated

  463. 463pat on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:11 am:

    Time for another Global Cooling Thread

  464. 464Iceweasel's Toilet Plunger on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:12 am:

    threecoloursblue: Well “buzz” ; your just -under-the -radar -racism and general allround nastiness finally caught up with you, eh ?

    F*ck you, you stupid toothless wench. See what happens when you try to venture out of the Green Gulag without the protection of CJ’s banhammer and “I will reveal your identity” stupidity?

  465. 465Jorline on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:30 am:

    Buzz, I registered at C2 with Google…not much pain.

    Get your sorry ass over there, I’ll even cook you something…lol

  466. 466Measuring the Marigolds on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:39 am:

    464 Iceweasel’s Toilet Plunger

    Duke Johnson actually now has more weapons in his arsenal than just the “banhammer.” They are:

    The Flouncehammer – The power to not just ban you but then immediately afterward publicly mock and humiliate you by concocting an imaginary farewell deleted comment on your part that was so evil and racist that it simply can’t be repeated in public!

    The Sockhammer – With one mighty swing, he can ban any other accounts you’ve ever had at LGF and label them as “sockpuppets,” even though you never actually used them!

    The Blockhammer – With but one click, he prevents you from ever visiting LGF again, by blocking your IP address. Begone, serf!

    The Outhammer – Instantly splashes your real name across the Internet, to make sure you never sleep easily at night again!

    …and the mysterious

    The Correlator Tool – So powerful, it can look down the wires out out your computer screen, to see who is sitting in your chair!

    …in addition to the well-known

    The Deletehammer – Comments gone so fast that they never actually appeared on the human time scale, instead confined to being quantum phenomena.

    The Banhammer – It glows red-hot from constant use! The anvil pleads for mercy!

  467. 467huckleberry on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:41 am:

    Zombie is better off without lgf, no doubt about it. We all had to know it was coming.

    First they came for the creationist, but zombie kept quiet (well, cheered them on counts as not opposing them) because zombie wasn’t a creationist…

    Then they came for the “angry mob” at the tea parties, and again… zombie kept silent…

    You knew they would eventually get around to going after zombies…

  468. 468uburoi on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:41 am:

    re: #466

    Instant classic.

  469. 469pat on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:42 am:

    Dianna and Buzz, check out Table 9 at The Coffee Shop blog if you wish to say hi to some old friends in chat mode. 37 there last nite, including some undercover LGFers, lol.

  470. 470purdy on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:43 am:

    I like it here.

  471. 471purdy on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:44 am:

    Someone needs to repost #466 at The Deuce!

  472. 472Sweet Quiche Lorraine on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:46 am:

    I sense a community re-forming.

  473. 473Anonymous on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:14 am:

    436threecoloursblue on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:25 am:

    Well “buzz” ; your just -under-the -radar -racism and general allround nastiness finally caught up with you, eh ?

    Begone, race-baiter…. back to the drab, humorless, conspiracy-ridden community from which you dwell.

  474. 474lurking hacker on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:22 am:

    The Correlator Tool – of one CJ
    The only way he can correlate web sites is using tracking cookies, the way the advertisers do
    Easy to avoid. Use one browser for his blog only (say, Safari, which is available for Windows)
    Use your normal one for everything else.
    I’ve been doing this for almost a week, posting at cc and lgf, and haven’t been caught.
    The HARD part is not to say something that identifies yourself, because if he actually looks at your posts, and you say the same thing in both places, it will be easy to figure out

  475. 475Russkilitlover on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:27 am:

    lurking hacker – why would you WANT to post at his site? It’s really a very nasty place now.

  476. 476lurking hacker on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:29 am:

    One more thing – NEVER click a link to LGF from a blog you want to keep hidden from the correlator tool. That gives your IP address and the blog you came from, thus giving him the charge for the banning stick.

  477. 477threecoloursblue on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:30 am:

    Nice try. But I’m not female; nor even American come to that.

    I called out Buzz ages ago on LGF for his racism and he ran to

    The Blog owner and got me banned. Didn’t you Buzz ?

    I’ve often wondered; why do louchee old queens like you hang

    around right-wing blogs ? You must know in your heart of hearts that

    you’re doomed to melt down one day? Must be that little frisson of danger.

  478. 478lurking hacker on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:30 am:

    Why would I want to? Well, let’s just say I want to see how long I can stay hidden this way.
    And there are still a few decent people left.

  479. 479Dianna on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:37 am:

    threecoloursblue: Nice try. But I’m not female; nor even American come to that.
    I called out Buzz ages ago on LGF for his racism and he ran to
    The Blog owner and got me banned. Didn’t you Buzz ?I’ve often wondered; why do louchee old queens like you hang
    around right-wingblogs ?You must know in your heart of hearts thatyou’redoomed to melt down one day? Must be that little frisson of danger.

    Oh, please.

    How long was I at LGF? I remember you. I remember your attitude.

    Or are you going to claim I have character issues, too?

    Wait, I must; I’m gone from LGF, too.

  480. 480Dianna on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:38 am:

    lurking hacker: Why would I want to? Well, let’s just say I want to see how long I can stay hidden this way.
    And there are still a few decent people left.

    Even my stubborn nature was eventually defeated. Good luck to you.

  481. 481buzzsawmonkey on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:03 pm:

    threecoloursblue: Nice try. But I’m not female; nor even American come to that.
    I called out Buzz ages ago on LGF for his racism and he ran to
    The Blog owner and got me banned. Didn’t you Buzz ?I’ve often wondered; why do louchee old queens like you hang
    around right-wingblogs ?You must know in your heart of hearts thatyou’redoomed to melt down one day? Must be that little frisson of danger.

    You are raving. Not as to your whining about other people’s alleged racism–as I recall, that was one of your routines–but as to my having “run” to anyone to get you banned. Not only have I never had that kind of influence, but there’s really no reason to try and influence someone to remove a punchbowl turd.

    You ought to go back there now, though. You’d find a lot of kindred spirits and fellow-countrymen, which is why so many people are there no longer.

  482. 482threecoloursblue on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:04 pm:

    Dianna:
    Oh, please.
    How long was I at LGF? I remember you. I remember your attitude.
    Or are you going to claim I have character issues, too?
    Wait, I must; I’m gone from LGF, too.

    I don’t have ” an attitude “. On LGF I tried reason. Especially against the knee-jerk anti-Europeanism
    that prevailed there. And sometimes tried to moderate the chilling “Palestinians don’t exist ” comments.
    I don’t remember you as having been particularily OTT on anything, so why would I claim “issues ” ?
    Buzz is another country entirely though.

  483. 483threecoloursblue on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:20 pm:

    buzzsawmonkey:
    Not as to your whining about other people’s ALLEGED racism

    Nothing alleged about your racism. Its front and centre for everyone to see.

    And I remember your “Gee, what did I miss ” shyte when I was banned. Right !

  484. 484buzzsawmonkey on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:25 pm:

    ##482, 483

    Oh, grow the f*ck up.

  485. 485RickZ on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:54 pm:

    # 484 buzzsawmonkey,

    You’re actually asking an @ssweasel to grow up? Pigs wearing lipstick will fly before such an earth-shaking event occurs.

    So glad I left the 1.0 cesspool before I had the ‘pleasure’ of encountering @ssweasel’s ‘informed’ debating style. Seeing it here is bad enough.

  486. 486buzzsawmonkey on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:58 pm:

    Woke up this mornin’, baby
    Had three colors of the blues
    Yeah, woke up this mornin’, baby
    Had three colors of the blues
    Went right back to sleep again
    ‘Cause those postings make me snooze

  487. 487Formercorpsman on Oct 13, 2009 at 1:41 pm:

    My brother Buzz…

    You still make laugh.

  488. 488Formercorpsman on Oct 13, 2009 at 1:44 pm:

    Still make me laugh. But you knew that.

  489. 489Russkilitlover on Oct 13, 2009 at 1:46 pm:

    threecoulorsblue (aka Iceweasel) – Back! Back to your ranting paranoid conspiracy theorizing blathering blog! You are 51 cards short of a deck there, beeotch, and you’re scaring the children.

  490. 490kansas on Oct 13, 2009 at 1:55 pm:

    Dianna, Buzz, Zombie,

    You all were great. Diana. Thanks for the positives for me at the Cesspool. I was arguing with the Weasel when I got whacked. Look forward to reading your comments here and at other places.

  491. 491buzzsawmonkey on Oct 13, 2009 at 2:06 pm:

    490: Hey, kansas!

    I grieve for the folks I left behind–some of whom I disagreed with strongly, but who were nonetheless fun to match wits against; adults, who could take care of themselves. But permitting a free matching of wits and an adult exchange was the last thing on the minds of the dour hall monitors who were systematically weeding out humor, irreverence, or contradiction in favor of Approved Clean Thoughts.

    And now, enough of that. Over.

  492. 492Incognito on Oct 13, 2009 at 3:13 pm:

    stuiec: buzzsawmonkey: I posted your ode at Up from the Slime. At least three other people should see it there… hey, it’s a start.

    Stuiec, I am adding your blog into my list of blogs to read…

  493. 493this space intentionally left blank on Oct 13, 2009 at 3:18 pm:

    First time posting here, but anyone who wants to should see the ads now being served on LGF
    Or you can save the time and read your spam
    Stuff like
    Six Figure Cash Machine
    Cell phone glitch creates millionaires overnight
    Acai berry crap

    I guess he had to go to the Spam Ad Network. Maybe they like his new members.

  494. 494Anonymous on Oct 13, 2009 at 3:43 pm:

    I’m just coming back to this story: I looked at the other normal places, and have not seen a reference. Anyone have any idea when and if this is going to break elsewhere, or has it already?

  495. 495Historyrider on Oct 13, 2009 at 3:51 pm:

    I am amazed. I made one comment about the change of events at LGF, and it was calm and reasoned. I just tried to log into the site and find myself locked out. There was no attack, nothing outlandish or explosive in my comment, just a comment about the change and how it saddened me. Amazing.

  496. 496stuiec on Oct 13, 2009 at 3:58 pm:

    Incognito: Stuiec, I am adding your blog into my list of blogs to read…


    Molte grazie!

  497. 497threecoloursblue on Oct 13, 2009 at 4:40 pm:

    Little Sir Echo, how do you do?
    Hello! (Hello!) Hello! (Hello!)
    Little Sir Echo, we’ll answer you
    Hello! (Hello!) Hello! (Hello!)
    Hello! (Hello!) Hello! (Hello!)
    Won’t you come over and play? (and play)
    You’re a nice little fellow
    I know by your voice
    But you’re always so far away (away)

  498. 498Pvt Bin Jammin on Oct 13, 2009 at 4:56 pm:

    #493 They also have a test there where you can see if your husband is gay or not. LOL

  499. 499Wendya on Oct 13, 2009 at 4:57 pm:

    threecoloursblue:
    Nothing alleged about your racism. Its front and centre for everyone to see.And I remember your“Gee, what did I miss ”shyte when I was banned. Right !

    Oh, get a grip.

    Run back home to mommy and see if she’ll ban someone else for you.

  500. 500JesusLovesInfeidels on Oct 13, 2009 at 5:03 pm:

    Hmm. Zombie it has been a while since I read your site. Sorry to see the LGF Troll wars have hijacked your blog.

    To stay on topic, thanks for reporting the facts others choose not to disseminate.

  501. 501Anonymous on Oct 13, 2009 at 5:49 pm:

    What is this “C2″ of which you all speak?

  502. 502Callahan23 on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:05 pm:

    Anonymous: What is this “C2″ of which you all speak?

    It is the blog Correspondence Committee, good vibes because no one is looking back. There is no bashing of a certain site that bans it’s commenters. We are simply getting along with our lifes and subjects we like to discuss.

  503. 503Dianna on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:05 pm:

    Anonymous: What is this “C2″ of which you all speak?

    “Correspondence Committee.” It’s over on Blogspot.

  504. 504Jim on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:09 pm:

    Little Green Perverts are starting to run out of members. He can only add about 30 at a time and that’s with opening membership at least once a week. Then they are banned or quickly lose interest with his creepy bullshit.

  505. 505Anonymous on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:26 pm:

    Thank you very much! I’ll check it out.

  506. 506Centaur on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:44 pm:

    Buzzsawmonkey … great to see you here and welcome to the wilderness. Be free now. Say whatever the hell you want to say,

  507. 507A Ninny Moose on Oct 13, 2009 at 8:46 pm:

    threecoloursblue:
    I don’t have” an attitude “.On LGF I tried reason. Especially against the knee-jerk anti-Europeanism
    that prevailed there.And sometimes tried to moderate the chilling“Palestinians don’t exist ”comments. I don’t remember you as having been particularily OTT on anything, so why would I claim “issues ” ?Buzz is another country entirely though.

    Then why are you so afraid to use your “iceweasel” nic here? Afraid that Mr. “disputed, but it has not been proven false” will get upset at you?

  508. 508Guy Average on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:09 pm:

    Zombie:

    This thread is OT by a long shot.

  509. 509Bolero on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:34 pm:

    Gosh! Over 500 comments in Zombie’s blog! Is that a record?

  510. 510Throbert McGee on Oct 14, 2009 at 4:32 am:

    Out of curiosity, why is everyone convinced that “threecoloursblue” is the same poster as “iceweasel”? (I mean, apart from the snarling and the rampant Britishisms and the Buzzsawmonkey-baiting.)

  511. 511Starless on Oct 14, 2009 at 5:45 am:

    Anonymous: I’m just coming back to this story:I looked at the other normal places, and have not seen a reference.Anyone have any idea when and if this is going to break elsewhere, or has it already?

    I have yet to see it break in the MSM anywhere. The story is probably “too complex”. On the Left, the response seems to be anywhere from “any criticism must be homophobia!” to the ultra-harsh “you’re trying to make him guilty by association”.

    Guy Average: Zombie:This thread is OT by a long shot.

    I don’t think there’s any way to stop this particular “Me too!” freight train. I enjoy a good CJ-bashing as much anyone, but this is getting a little tedious.

  512. 512threecoloursblue on Oct 14, 2009 at 7:04 am:

    Throbert McGee: Out of curiosity, why is everyone convinced that “threecoloursblue” is the same poster as “iceweasel”? (I mean, apart from the snarling and the rampant Britishisms and the Buzzsawmonkey-baiting.)

    Apart from the “Britishisms ” – I’m Irish – you’re more perceptive than the others.

  513. 513Lincolntf on Oct 14, 2009 at 7:06 am:

    Starless on Oct 14, 2009 at 5:45 am:

    Yep.
    I gotta say that the fact that this story didn’t leak into the MSM surprises me. There is no way “they” are ignorant of Zombie’s article/research. The fact that they refuse to broach the subject is testament to how damaging it is.
    I still hope that the truth about Jennings and his career becomes widely known, but I’m rapidly losing faith.

  514. 514phoenixgirl on Oct 14, 2009 at 7:57 am:

    ice weasel, does your master know you are posting over here? did he send you?

  515. 515Throbert McGee on Oct 14, 2009 at 8:09 am:

    Starless:
    I have yet to see it break in the MSM anywhere. The story is probably “too complex”. On the Left, the response seems to be anywhere from “any criticism must be homophobia!” to the ultra-harsh “you’re trying to make him guilty by association”.

    On blogs that are left-leaning AND gay-run (such as Towleroad, Joe.My.God, Pam’s House Blend, and Queerty), there’s been both of the above, but also a definite effort to downplay Harry Hay’s involvement with NAMBLA — such as by suggesting that the very worst he did was to protest NAMBLA’s exclusion/expulsion from Gay Pride events and organizations. Needless to say, none of these sites even mention Zombie’s report, let alone link to this page. (I assume some of them must’ve been briefly tempted to cite Zombie as a source, in order to discredit the story by linking it with the author of those blatantly homophobic!! photo essays on the Folsom St. shenanigans. But evidently, the instinct to circle the wagons around a Founding Father of Gay Rights proved too strong, and the material presented here by Zombie is just too damning.)

  516. 516Anonymous on Oct 14, 2009 at 9:05 am:

    Three Coloursblue

    You admit to being an LGF poster. Some claim you’re the poster Ice Weasel. Are you, and, or Ice Weasel, European, and, if so, could you please clarify why you haven’t posted a disclaimer on your comments? You know, the disclaimer that you’re not an American?

    In all fairness, this would allow those who read your comments and “observations”, the ability to put your comments and “observations” on Republicans, American conservatives, and “racism”, i.e., those you’ve made here against Buzzsawmonkey, an American, into “context”. Wouldn’t it?

  517. 517wolfie on Oct 14, 2009 at 9:34 am:

    Zombie, I always look forward to your reports because I know you do serious, conscientious work. Thanks for another fine job!

    Throbert McGee, I especially appreciate your helpful input on this particular story. Your suggestions as to what the teacher SHOULD have done are, IMHO, excellent.

  518. 518buzzsawmonkey on Oct 14, 2009 at 9:34 am:

    I would like to apologize to the visitors/posters here, to the extent that my replying to a resentful little stalker kicked off a conversation which did nothing, really, except feed the stalker’s hunger for drama.

    It is wholly unimportant whether “threecoloursblue,” whose posting style strongly resembles that of a current poster at another blog under another name, is in fact that same poster. What is relevant is that this stalker, apparently nursing a long-held grudge based upon completely imaginary grounds, breezed in here for no purpose whatsoever except to fling snotty and baseless accusations.

  519. 519zmdavid on Oct 14, 2009 at 10:08 am:

    I think there should be a rule of thumb that any post over a certain age that has comments open becomes an open topic. 3 days maybe?

  520. 520Throbert McGee on Oct 14, 2009 at 10:57 am:

    threecoloursblue: I’ve often wondered; why do louchee old queens like you hang around right-wing blogs ?

    Well, that’s a new addition to my vocabulary. I had to look it up, and found that it means “shifty” or “disreputable,” though the literal meaning in Frawnch is “squinty-eyed.” The big surprise, to me, was that it evidently has nothing at all to do with Polari (’cause loo-shay just SOUNDS like a very Polari-type word to my American ears).

    But anyway, Iceweasel is a fervent supporter of and member in the LGBTQ community, so I’m 100% certain she wouldn’t have called BSM an “old queen.”

  521. 521threecoloursblue on Oct 14, 2009 at 11:02 am:

    Anonymous: Three ColoursblueYou admit to being an LGF poster. Some claim you’re the poster Ice Weasel. Are you, and, or Ice Weasel, European, and, if so, could you please clarify why you haven’t posted a disclaimer on your comments? You know, the disclaimer that you’re not an American?
    In all fairness, this would allow those who read your comments and “observations”, the ability to put your comments and “observations” on Republicans, American conservatives, and “racism”, i.e., those you’ve made here against Buzzsawmonkey, an American, into “context”.Wouldn’t it?

    I admitted to having been an LGF poster. Banned 2007(?) Disclaimer is post No. 512 if you like.

    Buzz will doubtless regale you all with stuff like:-

    MLK was just fine until the left took over civil rights.
    Old jazz musicians had class because they hired plush rail cars to
    stay in when denied access to hotels.
    Birth of a Nation should be taught in film school
    for its innovative tech.
    And they really did a good job on shoes. OK , that’s me taking the piss
    but you get my drift.

  522. 522Beckaholic on Oct 14, 2009 at 11:04 am:

    Throbert, shouldn’t NAMBLA be excluded from parades and stuff? They should be shunned for being perverts. I don’t get why protesting to include them in anything in polite society would be considered admirable.

    zmdavid- Good idea! Zombie? We’re just so happy to have a place to be free to say what we want we can barely control ourselves!! Your thoughts, lol?

  523. 523buzzsawmonkey on Oct 14, 2009 at 11:09 am:

    #520 Throbert:

    I think the word is properly spelled “louche.” “Louchee” sounds like a dessert in a Chinese restaurant.

  524. 524Dianna on Oct 14, 2009 at 11:17 am:

    threecoloursblue:
    I admitted to having been an LGF poster. Banned 2007(?)Disclaimer is post No. 512 if you like.Buzz will doubtless regale you all with stuff like:-MLK was just fine until the left took over civil rights.
    Old jazz musicians had class because they hired plush rail cars to
    stay in when denied access to hotels.
    Birth of a Nation should be taught in film school
    for its innovative tech.
    And they really did a good job on shoes. OK , that’s me taking the piss
    but you get my drift.

    Frankly, to observe any of the above proves fuck all, and anyone with half a brain knows it. Read Shelby Steele’s fairly recent book on what happened to the civil rights movement.

    I cannot remember how many books on the 1920′s I’ve read that spend at least a couple pages talking about Birth of a Nation, and how much of a breakthrough it was – 3 hours as opposed to 30 minutes, and so on. It may be repugnant, but that doesn’t mean it oughtn’t be studied.

    As to the remark about jazz musicians? What did you want? Honestly, that has to be the most fucked-up waste of electrons I’ve read in a while. This proves, proves!!! racism…how?

    Lack-witted and lame and smarmy, that’s what those “quotes” are.

    Excuse my language, but this is the kind of nonsense that makes me want to jump up and down and scream.

  525. 525Throbert McGee on Oct 14, 2009 at 11:19 am:

    BSM — since the word is of French origin, and since it was modifying the noun “queen,” I took louchee to be the feminine form of the adjective.

  526. 526buzzsawmonkey on Oct 14, 2009 at 11:24 am:

    Throbert McGee: BSM — since the word is of French origin, and since it was modifying the noun “queen,” I took louchee to be the feminine form of the adjective.

    Not a reference to Susan Louchee, the queen of daytime soaps?

  527. 527buzzsawmonkey on Oct 14, 2009 at 11:26 am:

    BTW, Throbert–Anthony Blanche, the overtly gay figure in Waugh’s Brideshead Revisited, refers to “a louche little bar quite near here” to which he invites the narrator Charles Ryder after Ryder’s gallery opening.

    In the editions I have, the word is italicized but has only one “e.”

  528. 528zmdavid on Oct 14, 2009 at 11:28 am:

    I remember when threecouloursblue was banned at LGF for being a lefty troll, back when that was considered bad there.

  529. 529buzzsawmonkey on Oct 14, 2009 at 11:32 am:

    #524 Dianna: It’s sort of as if Ed Wood (“Plan 9,” “Glen or Glenda”) had produced the “coming attractions” trailer for Casablanca.

  530. 530Starless on Oct 14, 2009 at 12:06 pm:

    Throbert McGee:
    also a definite effort to downplay Harry Hay’s involvement with NAMBLA — such as by suggesting that the very worst he did was to protest NAMBLA’s exclusion/expulsion from Gay Pride events and organizations. …But evidently, the instinct to circle the wagons around a Founding Father of Gay Rights proved too strong, and the material presented here by Zombie is just too damning.)

    As I understand it, Hay helped NAMBLA gain recognition from the International Gay and Lesbian Something-or-other and I was wondering if that happened around the time that NAMBLA was really pushing for recognition from gay organizations (in the ’90s?). IIRC, NAMBLA’s fucked-up logic was that because their victims are of the same sex, they are, therefore, a “gay” organization and their exclusion from gay events and organizations was prejudice and apparently they got at least one organization to fall for it. Did they get this strategy from Hay?

    Any defense of Hay based on principle seems to sound a lot like defending the ACLU for representing the KKK in free speech cases. That is that Hay’s action of behalf of NAMBLA was him saying, “I’m opposing the oppression of people based on their sexual orientation. This business about age of consent is a side issue”. I think of it more as an analogue to saying, “I’m okay with Hitler because it is unjust that the rest of Europe is preventing German speaking people from being one nation. The Final Solution is a side issue”. (And, no, I don’t think comparing NAMBLA to the Nazis is a case of Godwining.)

    It’s funny, this business of circling the wagons and getting away with it seems to be such a consistent theme for the Left. Why is it that the Right can’t get away with even a single instance of that sort of behavior?

  531. 531Throbert McGee on Oct 14, 2009 at 1:19 pm:

    buzzsawmonkey:
    Not a reference to Susan Louchee, the queen of daytime soaps?

    I’ve been humming “Looshey in the Sky with Diamonds” all afternoon…

  532. 532threecoloursblue on Oct 14, 2009 at 1:59 pm:

    Shelby Steele:

    On Barack Obama

    Steele wrote a short book A Bound Man: Why We are Excited about Obama and Why He Can’t Win, published in December 2007. The book contained Steele’s analysis of Barack Obama’s character as a child born to a mixed couple who then has to grow as a black man.[4] Steele then concludes that Barack Obama is a “bound man” to his “black identity.” Steele gives this description of his conclusion:
    “ There is a price to be paid even for fellow-traveling with a racial identity as politicized and demanding as today’s black identity. This identity wants to take over a greater proportion of the self than other racial identities do. It wants to have its collective truth — its defining ideas of grievance and protest — become personal truth…. These are the identity pressures that Barack Obama lives within. He is vulnerable to them because he has hungered for a transparent black identity much of his life. He needs to ‘be black.’ And this hunger — no matter how understandable it may be — means that he is not in a position to reject the political liberalism inherent in his racial identity. For Obama liberalism is blackness. ”

    After Obama won the 2008 U.S. presidential election, Steele defended his analysis and claimed that the subtitle of the book was simply a marketing device that he had only put “about 30 seconds” of thought into.[5]

    He explains Obama’s victory by likening him to Louis Armstrong, donning the “bargainer’s mask” in his bid for white acceptance. In his analysis, he takes whites — whom he claims have for decades been stigmatized as racist and had to prove they are not — “off the hook.” In Uncommon Knowledge, which he wrote with Peter Robinson, he says:
    “ White America has made tremendous moral progress since the ’60s… And they’ve never given themselves credit for that. And here is an opportunity at last to document this progress.”[6] ”

    And why you, despite your best attempts Buz, also “can’t win ” by picking Steele to defend your point.

  533. 533threecoloursblue on Oct 14, 2009 at 2:03 pm:

    Oops… That was Dianna’s post. Well, anyway.Same-same.

  534. 534buzzsawmonkey on Oct 14, 2009 at 2:05 pm:

    #532: First, apologies to zombie and the other posters here for deigning to respond to a stalker.

    Second, to the stalker: I have never cited to Shelby Steele, and have no idea what “point” you are referring to. You are deranged.

  535. 535Dianna on Oct 14, 2009 at 2:05 pm:

    threecoloursblue: Oops… That was Dianna’s post. Well, anyway.Same-same.

    No, it’s not.

    Try actually reading “White Guilt”, instead of grabbing a review which was not relevant to the subject being discussed.

  536. 536Dianna on Oct 14, 2009 at 2:10 pm:

    buzzsawmonkey: #532:First, apologies to zombie and the other posters here for deigning to respond to a stalker.Second, to the stalker:I have never cited to Shelby Steele, and have no idea what “point” you are referring to.You are deranged.

    TCB is deliberately missing the point. Steele discussed – in a book our little friend cannot be bothered to read, I’m sure – the sad progress of the civil rights movement; it rather echoes his summation of something you might have said in passing regarding the changes between the late 1960′s civil rights movement and the politics of grievance.

    No matter. What you said cannot be construed as “racism” without a mighty effort.

  537. 537buzzsawmonkey on Oct 14, 2009 at 2:17 pm:

    Dianna:
    TCB is deliberately missing the point. Steele discussed – in a book our little friend cannot be bothered to read, I’m sure – the sad progress of the civil rights movement; it rather echoes his summation of something you might have said in passing regarding the changes between the late 1960’s civil rights movement and the politics of grievance.
    No matter. What you said cannot be construed as “racism” without a mighty effort.

    I would point out that the genuine Civil Rights Movement achieved its victories in the mid-’60s, not the late ’60s, and that following passage of the Voting Rights Act the direction shifted to grievance politics, which by the late ’60s and King’s death were well entrenched.

    With that minor correction, I agree with and thank you.

    The irony of being subjected to flatulent lecturing about the nature of the US Civil Rights Movement and race generally by a mad stalker who admits to not being a US national–and who therefore cannot be considered to have anything more than an academic understanding, at best, of US racial history and politics–should be noted.

  538. 538Anonymous on Oct 14, 2009 at 2:39 pm:

    Byron York in the Washington Examiner regarding Kevin Jennings. He doesn’t mention the Hays controversy, btw.

    “Obama stands by Kevin Jennings – or does he?”

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Obama-stands-by-Kevin-Jennings—-or-does-he-63959822.html

  539. 539doppelganglander on Oct 14, 2009 at 3:46 pm:

    If threecoloursblue has ever been known by another name elsewhere, I’m going to guess it’s Just My View, a/k/a/ View from Ireland.

  540. 540Starless on Oct 14, 2009 at 3:47 pm:

    Anonymous: Byron York in the Washington Examiner regarding Kevin Jennings.He doesn’t mention the Hays controversy, btw.“Obama stands by Kevin Jennings – or does he?”http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Obama-stands-by-Kevin-Jennings—-or-does-he-63959822.html

    Oh, yeah, I saw that one. The MSM has glommed onto the 1988 “Hello, minor adolescent! Here’s my awesome advice: make sure and wear a condom when you have anonymous sex in train station bathrooms!” story. It’s easier to explain, and explain away, than the Hay business.

  541. 541Incognito on Oct 14, 2009 at 4:17 pm:

    RickZ: # 484 buzzsawmonkey,You’re actually asking an @ssweasel to grow up? Pigs wearing lipstick will fly before such an earth-shaking event occurs.So glad I left the 1.0 cesspool before I had the ‘pleasure’ of encountering @ssweasel’s ‘informed’ debating style. Seeing it here is bad enough.

    I agree, I had been at LGF for years until the meltdown with ID Evolution controversy and I don’t recall Iceweasel…

  542. 542Incognito on Oct 14, 2009 at 4:21 pm:

    buzzsawmonkey: #520 Throbert:I think the word is properly spelled “louche.” “Louchee” sounds like a dessert in a Chinese restaurant.

    Buzz, it is LYCHEE…like lychee nuts…

  543. 543buzzsawmonkey on Oct 14, 2009 at 4:30 pm:

    #542 (sigh) Yes, I know that. It’s what used to be called a play on words.

  544. 544threecoloursblue on Oct 14, 2009 at 5:11 pm:

    doppelganglander: If threecoloursblue has ever been known by another name elsewhere, I’m going to guess it’s Just My View, a/k/a/ View from Ireland.

    Wrong.

    zmdavid: I remember when threecouloursblue was banned at LGF for being a lefty troll, back when that was considered bad there.

    Thank you. But you’re wrong about the banning. I called Buzz out for the banning. The lefty stuff just about scraped through

    buzzsawmonkey:
    The irony of being subjected to flatulent lecturing about the nature of the US Civil Rights Movement and race generally by a mad stalker who admits to not being a US national–and who therefore cannot be considered to have anything more than an academic understanding, at best, of US racial history and politics–should be noted.

    That’s mere exceptionalism, at best. Paulian isolationism at worst.
    And up close and personal with racism hasn’t given you any particularly
    useful insights as far as I can see.
    Pass some legislation and presto ….. everything will be ok. Good luck with that.

  545. 545buzzsawmonkey on Oct 14, 2009 at 5:36 pm:

    #544 Are you still here, stalker? My, you’re a tiresome ass.

  546. 546pat on Oct 14, 2009 at 6:21 pm:

    More neo-LGF babble. Paulian Isolationism. I suppose now that Ireland has been subsumed into the EU, isolationism is suddenly bad.

  547. 547Exiled on Main Street on Oct 14, 2009 at 8:45 pm:

    “View from Ireland?” Wasn’t she the miserable potatohead who was banned from LGF for her blatant Jew-hatred? Now the harridan is one of CJ’s chief arse-kissers and toadies. Figures.

    Enjoy your exalted position now and I hope you’re wearing kneepads. Remember, the second you disagree with King Asshole he’ll ban your sorry hide again. Cheers!

  548. 548Throbert McGee on Oct 14, 2009 at 9:12 pm:

    By the way, one of the GayPatriot.net co-bloggers, Dan Blatt, recently called attention to a September 1998 essay in which Kevin Jennings wrote:

    We need to own up to the fact that our culture teaches boys that being “a man” is the most important thing in life, even if you have to kill someone to prove it. Killing someone who calls you a faggot is not aberrant behavior but merely the most extreme expression of a belief that is beaten (sometimes literally) into boys at an early age in this country: Be a man — don’t be a faggot.

    One thing to note: Matthew Shepard wasn’t attacked until October 1998, and Columbine was in April 1999, so Jennings didn’t have either of those particularly high-profile crimes in mind when he penned this essay — however, there had been a string of deadly school shootings by teenage males in late ’97 and early ’98, so Jennings was presumably reacting to those recent murderous rampages when he spoke of boys being “taught to kill” as proof of manhood. (I.e., instead of writing “our culture teaches boys to bully,” or something like that).

    But aside from that particular emphasis on killing, Jennings’ indictment of American Masculinity is an evergreen theme in certain gay circles — where the traditional response to the charge “homosexuality is incompatible with manhood” has been “Well, who needs dumb ol’ manhood anyway?”

  549. 549pat on Oct 14, 2009 at 9:28 pm:

    Exiled on Main Street: “View from Ireland?” Wasn’t she the miserable potatohead who was banned from LGF for her blatant Jew-hatred?Now the harridan is one of CJ’s chief arse-kissers and toadies.Figures.Enjoy your exalted position now and I hope you’re wearing kneepads.Remember, the second you disagree with King Asshole he’ll ban your sorry hide again.Cheers!

    That corresponds with my remembrance and is consistent with the way CJ is trying to turn LGF.

  550. 550zombie on Oct 14, 2009 at 10:49 pm:

    New thread up:

    Memo to Media Matters: Kevin Jennings knew of Harry Hay’s NAMBLA connections

    Suggestions, questions and critiques welcomed!

  551. 551Anonymous on Oct 15, 2009 at 12:30 am:

    Thank God this thread is over. It was like watching a mashup of “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?” and “Death Wish.”

  552. 552EdB on Oct 16, 2009 at 3:21 pm:

    Zombie, while straight, I love your site with your images of the idiocy and depravity of the left. Great stuff!

    But …

    Please stop supporting Mr. Jennings. Mr. Jennings will be toast before this month is out. Period, full stop.

    It won’t matter at all whether he knew about or supported Harry Hay, because Mr. Jennings is a supporter of gay indoctrination in elementary schools. His speeches and writings on the subject tell all that American families need to know to demand his removal. He will be removed very quickly, Harry Hay or not. Maybe the Harry Hay information makes his removal very, VERY quickly, but the die is cast and Jennings will be shown the door. And good riddance to the creep.

    You’re on the wrong side of this, sir. A ‘Safe Schools’ Czar simply cannot advocate for Queering of the elementary schools in the USA (or anywhere else). Ain’t gonna happen.

    Your research into this most recent political disaster for this lamentable administration and the Hay connection work you have done, is -very- admirable, but the gay movement hurts itself big-time by not rising with one voice, RIGHT NOW and demanding this freak’s removal.

    Unless, of course, you feel Jennings is correct….

    If you do, when the details of this prima facie case for hatred by everyday people of every gay in the USA and the -true- agenda of homosexuals gets even more widely known, via the net, etc., then you, the current gay activists, will be responsible for setting your movement’s support back to the 50’s or 60’s .

    Don’t say you weren’t warned. If you break your movement by your pig-headedness, you have no one to blame but yourselves. OK?

    A VERY fine site, otherwise. Thanks.

    Ed

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