Sometimes I just want to give up on conservatism.

I see you didn’t post my comment that accused you of being transphobic. Maybe it was the language that put you off. I’ll restrain myself this time.

Or maybe you held back my post because I said I hadn’t read the full comments thread. Well, I have now. And I’m disappointed.

First: a history lesson. It was social conservatives who made same-sex marriage an issue, by seeking to ban it. Hawaii, I believe. As you say, it wasn’t really on the radar before then. I don’t see the lack of marriage equality as the worse social injustice in the world; or even in the Western world; or even among gay people in the Western world. In the USA, DOMA and ENDA are probably bigger issues, in terms of the effects on people’s lives. But marriage inequality is perhaps the most obvious social wrong, and (theoretically) the easiest to fix. It’s discrimination based on blind bigotry, with absolutely no supporting arguments whatsoever. It’s just so obvious, so straightforward, that it’s frustrating that it’s not being fixed immediately. Also, some people cannot afford to wait.

Furthermore, you are describing these as Prop-8 protests. There has been a lot of discussion on gay blogs about why there was such an outpouring of protest after Prop-8 (too late). I think it was just an overboiling of frustration. Of course civil rights have come on in great strides since the days of Harvey Milk, but recently things have been bogging down again, and the rhetoric has been ratcheting up. There is real hate out there (some of it on this blog). In other words, whatever the signs may have said, these protests weren’t just about Prop-8, or even mainly about Prop-8. Prop-8 was just the most potent symbol. It shocked many younger gay people out of their political complacency.

Gay people are, of course, a disparate community. We are analogous to the Deaf, more than to the racial minorities. (And Deaf people too have been persecuted and disenfranchised.) We are brought up, usually, by straight parents, we have straight siblings, straight schoolmates and other friends. We are integrated. And, while kids are coming out earlier now, late teens is still quite common, and some come out considerably later. The idea that we should all move away is, of course, ridiculous.

Here in Ireland, I’ve been to one rally for marriage equality, and have written to the Taoiseach and to the Minister for Justice. (I’ve had replies, too. Polite ones.)

Unlike you, Zombie, I’m not much of a fan of direct democracy. I think a constitution should have a firm commitment to equality, and should be difficult to change, requiring more than a simple majority. And I think campaign ads based on outright lies and hate-speech should be restricted. The National Organisation for Marriage tell more lies than you’d believe. (Many such lies are documented on Jeremy Hooper’s excellent blog Good as You.) The American Constitution does not claim to grant rights, it enumerates them. The rights already exist, and are inalienable. On that premise, it could be argued (morally, if not legally) that the vote for Prop-8 was invalid.

I am not a lawyer. I am certainly not an American lawyer. I don’t claim that’s a good argument for court, though it may be. I’m just saying it’s one way to look at it. The people have spoken, and they were wrong, and they did something they had no right to do. That’s how I see it, anyway.

Perhaps you’ll publish me this time? I’ve held off on the insults, though no one else in the thread has bothered to do so.

TRiG.

Oh, so America is a backward nation because not all states allow gay marriage?

Interesting.

And exactly how many gay marriages have there been in England?

Hold on, I’m counting…counting…counting…oh, here’s the total: ZERO.

How in the world can you stand there in a country that does not allow gay marriages (the UK) and fling accusations of backwardness and evil at a country that allows more gay marriages than your own?

And no, the “civil partnerships” allowed in the UK are no different that the “domestic partnerships” that already exist in California and most other states. On the issue of gay marriage the UK is far more backward than the US.

Get back to me when the UK legalizes gay marriage. Until then, you have absolutely no leg to stand on.

It is amusing how this side of the argument can be used in the opposite context. Gay people, although not “believers” could replace the term with “gay” and have the same affect on some heterosexuals as this quote had on me. Homosexuals have been around as long as “believers” of all sorts, and people will just have to accept that. Both sides will have to learn how to live with each other.
Why should one group of people be kept down because they have less power than the other? Because that’s life as and “you’ll just have to live with that.” However this same thought pattern can be applied to why someone can make a hypocritical argument at a symbol of his struggle, because it is life and it is logical that one would be angry and want change, just as it is logical that the majority wins.
How can we judge so many people, of both sides, on logical actions we make based on experiences and life. Believers and gays, we are all the same, stubborn and righteous. (Get it… pun? Okay I know I’m not a comedian)

I have many many close friends who are American.

Americans are regularly considered in the UK to be arrogant, ill-educated and ill-informed. I hate that.

Thank you for all you supporters of proposition 8 for confirming to my countrymen that you are in fact all of those things. Thank you for allowing us to consider you a backward nation. I hate that it is even a consideration. I HATE anti-American feeling, then I come across your website and read the comments from retards who haven’t realised the world has progressed a little in the last 50 years.

There’s a reason you are hated globally. The comments on this website are the reason.

Grow up.

Thanks for the education into the matter. Don’t agree with everything you say but that’s fine…I don’t agree with my mother on everything.

One of the reasons I’m For Prop 8 is Homosexuals will join forces with the most radical leftists to get what they want. If that means they would vote for Joseph Stalin who would promise them gay marriage by all means they will do so. There are other reasons but will elaborate later.

I have to chime in with some useless information. As far as Ken posting from China. The Chinese are the number one hackers against the US. What they do is hack into a computer in Canada and go through it to the US. When we trace it it will show Canada as the place of origin. But digging further, it can be traced back to China. So I wouldn’t know where Ken is really…but who cares.

Ken is self absorbed because he graduated from one of China’s indoctrination centers so has the best of both worlds of supporting Homosexual marriage and Communism so congrats to him.