The Red Cross Ambulance Incident Roof and Rust Mail Page

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This page features a selection of responses emailed by visitors to The Red Cross Ambulance Incident page regarding rust and related damage to the roof.
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From: Matt K.

There is more evidence to refute Claim #2 using rust than what you have said so far. You mentioned it in one place in the whole article and did not ever expand upon it further. In Claim #1 you wrote:

"Now look carefully at the edges of the hole. There is an unpainted flange of consistent width around the perimeter, with small screw holes at regular intervals."

In Claim #2 you ask how could the roof rust so quickly and that rust was quite old and must have taken months. My question is:
How could only one incident that supposedly caused all the damage at one time, leave half of the hole extremely deformed and rusted while leaving the opposite side of the hole seemingly untouched and untarnished (some angles show a glare, rust does not shine reflected light) by any rust?

Then I get down to Claim #2 to see the high-resolution version of the hole and it becomes quite clear that the rust happened while the vent dome was intact, the vent dome being what kept the rest of the flange from rusting. How do I know this? Look again at the high-res close up of the hole (image attached with color arrows to help understand). The hole at about 5 o-clock (blue arrow) showing most of a circle with the part facing the big hole missing.

Even with a domed or curved roof, it is possible to get rust around the screwhole when not properly sealed (yellow arrows), but looking at the big picture you can see two distinct rivers of rust running toward the big hole (red arrows). Unless water flows uphill on a domed roof, this rust river was caused by the roof having been dented downwards causing water to run towards the hole. The red arrow on the right shows how the small bit of water that pooled at the still existing vent dome slowly drained down the screwhole.

More evidence that the vent dome was well sealed is that the pieces of metal that are bent inward, many are showing the same clean bare metal (green arrows) that the bottom of the picture shows. If the bending of the metal was from the same event as the rest of the rust, that metal would have to be rusted. The only way I know to keep bare metal from rusting in a hot humid car is to keep a protective cover sealed over it (vent dome must still be attached and not very damaged).

Another effect of a river of rust is that the deepest part of the trench is where the most rust will occur and so will become the weakest part of the steetmetal the fastest. Notice that where very little rust exists, the screw holes were snapped/broken open since the sheetmetal is still strong all the way around but thin at the edge of the big hole. Where the sheetmetal is weak from rust you will get a tearing along the rust lines. Often the inner edge of the hole is not rusted since the water went down the screwhole, so typically the edge will not break, instead the screwhole will tear open along the rust line, since that is now the weakest point.

So to sum up, while the rust patterns and the ripping may be subject for debate, the fact that supposedly one rocket blast caused some parts of the van to have deep rust and yet right beside that is clean and shiny bare metal just does not pass the BS smell test. Note that I do live in the south with often high humidity and no metal around here rusts that fast.

If I were to guess I would say something collapsed on the roof causing the minor-paint-chips-to-outright-holes in the roof and causing it to go from a domed roof to a dented concave cup, it was left out in the open with the vent dome still mostly intact. After a good while with some rain, someone removed the vent dome by knocking it down through the roof.

If you look at the high res picture of the roof, you will notice that what appear to be "holes" are dents. They have rust in the bottom of the "hole."

Also, if you look at the high res shot there are mounting holes for the top in the center hole.

The more I look at this, the more it looks like a vanagon that flipped on a rocky road.

-- Bill L.

From: Jabot T. S.

I don't want to take a stand on the overall claim you are making but I do want to point a couple of things out.

1. Heat increases the rust reaction. It seems to me likely that a missile or gun-fire would have produced a substantial amount of heat in a strike. This heat could easily have either caused rust or accelerated rust already present. With heat as an accelerant there wouldn't need to be alot of water, say from rain. Normal atmospheric moisture even in a dry climate could possibly be enough.

2. The fact that the hole was pre-existing doesn't rule out that it was hit by a missile. It seems possible that the vent could have been the target which would increase the likelihood of the missile striking that point.

From the first time I saw these pictures I knew it was a hoax as the marks on the roof are more likely to be caused by an axe than anything else and it was apparent that it was not from a missile or even small arms fire as the puncture wounds would all be different.

It is therefore my opinion that the media , who is much more aware of how that type of damage should look is actually a partner with the terrorists, and guilty of treason under any clear description of the word.

-- Jim C.

In college, a friend of mine had an old VW van with a factory-built skylight very similar to what we see with this VW ambulance.

After multiple beers, we went for a drive and he rolled it in a ditch. The skylight sheared off, there was slight damage to the sides of the van, and the weak area round the skylight caved in.

My speculation: this ambulance got rolled at some point, and was totalled. Reasonably, it was taken to the boneyard. Also reasonably, it was used for target practice. (Big red cross from 300 meters. What fun!!)

War starts, dragged from boneyard after months of rusting, and a legend is born. This wasn't a setup; it was an afterthought.

-- Chris

From: Karl F.

From my view, the fragmentation pattern is not from a missile impact but likely from a hand grenade detonated on the roof line, possibly right on the vent unit to tear it off as the edges of the screw mounting holes are all torn to the inside. Even though it is sheet metal, it takes some pretty good force tear a material this way; and the penetrations are from jagged fragments blowing across the top, not from inside out or even air burst. And, the footprints on the roof would certainly contribute to the "cave-in" effect on the roof, not a missile blast going out.

Furthermore, any missile capable of pinpoint top attack like the hellfire the IDF uses for vehicle targets, is going to blow the vehicle out like a balloon as it incinerates it with many pounds of high explosive. I am more and more convinced it was a hand grenade (or custom bomb) on the roof so it would be easily controlled and not likely to cause fire as is indicated by the inside of the vehicle.

From: Jonas S.

This is something that is constantly misrepresented in the media, movies/TV, etc over the last few decades: shrapnel vs. shell fragments. Shrapnel in military terminology refers specifically to the ball-bearing size pieces of metal inside an older style anti-personnel artillery shell. In current military inventories around the world, there are no standard artillery rounds or missiles currently being used that utilize shrapnel. The vast majority of artillery rounds and missiles are HE (high explosive) which cause damage by explosive force and thermal energy. Anything left over from something like this is a "shell fragment." On the other hand, IEDs and suicide belts utilizing ball bearings pressed into plastic explosive form a perfect example of shrapnel and it's intended effects.